[OP]
Guest
When did the deals and discounts viewability go to contributors only?
I can't necessarily remember when I bought anything based on what's posted there, but I also can't understand how it would help companies and sponsors who post there to have non-contributors not be able to see their offerings.
Administrator
David,
This is a change our Staff has been discussing for a couple days.
You hit the nail on the head....it isn't our mission to help companies that aren't our advertisers. Yet this is what has been happening....and it has been hampering our ability to market our banner advertisements.
Rather than delete the Deals and Discounts Forum we decided that limiting access to the Forum would be the best course of action. For some it might also provide an additional incentive to make an annual contribution that helps us pay the bills.
.
Member
No disrespect intended, but letting people know in advance would've been nice.
Also, providing a refresh to how to become a contributor would've been even nicer. For example, I went to order a contributor setup, and found you accept only PayPal when doing it online. I refuse to use PayPal, because of some bad things they've done to friends and relatives of mine. So, now I have to wait to access the D&D forum until you recieve a check from me.
[OP]
Guest
This makes sense. Sometimes when we're sitting out here thinking of things as a reader, we don't really look at the banner aspect.Originally Posted by Keith Outten
The contribution thing, we get fine, but we forget that that's not the only money coming in to pay the bills.
Member
Possible that reduced traffic through the Deals forum could reduce overall forum traffic and subsequently the value of your banner ads to sponsors. If the quality of the discount forum contributions decline due to lower participation then I know I would be less likely to check in as frequently. Many days the thought of checking the deals is what reminds me to check the forum. I understand your desire to increase revenue. Just hope it doesn't get offset by lower ad revenue due to lower overall traffic.
Guest
Agree with David, I'm having second thoughts about the creek!
Bob
Member
I realize that there are some operating expenses in maintaining the site, but is SMC intended to be a "for profit" organization?
Last edited by scott spencer; 07-01-2010 at 6:53 AM.
Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....
Administrator
David,
We receive between 9 to 12 million page views per month, I seriously doubt that the changes to the Deals and Discounts Forum will cause much of a problem with traffic. The change isn't just about revenue, SawMill Creek is about woodworking not sales. The Deals and Discounts Forum is still here and accessible to those who are interested, the recent changes are designed to curb unauthorized advertising.
We are in our 8th year hosting SawMill Creek. What I have learned is that as long as we continue to support woodworking discussions and provide a friendly atmosphere we will remain the number one woodworking site on the Net.
.
Last edited by Keith Outten; 07-01-2010 at 7:24 AM.
Administrator
Scott,
Yes, The Creek is a for profit business owned by Northwind Associates Inc. It takes a large staff of Moderators and three paid Administrators to run a site at this level. Our expenses every month are considerable and the taxes we pay each year would probably shock most people. We also spend several thousand dollars each year on hardware, software and bandwidth.
.
Last edited by Keith Outten; 07-01-2010 at 7:27 AM.
Member
Gotta tell ya...
This thing made me mad at first. And then I thought it over. As much as I would like to think of this place as some sort of not-for-profit, grandfatherly bunch of guys whom we can visit from time to time and jump up on their knees and pick their brains about woodworking...I forget about the expenses involved.
Yeah, I felt a tad slighted this morning when I signed on and was denied access to D&D. But it was also the very thing that reminded me that I needed to contribute.
Guest
Cutting access to such a benign area of the site to contributors only is non-nonsensical. I see nothing but marketing spin at work here; the Creek is a community sharing ideas, an open forum to discuss woodworking (and provide valuable content that becomes the property of Northwind), but if you want full access, you must pay. If the inexorable limiting of access is indeed a veiled strategy to boost contribution rates among users to satisfy opex of the site, and the site is a for profit enterprise, then perhaps all contributors should be provided with some disclosure on the profitability, or non-profitability, of the site. I also wonder about the logic that getting more contributors in this manner will somehow increase the ability to attract banner advertising, while allowing contributors to turn off the ads; somehow this does not compute. One might conclude, in the absence of disclosure, that the "profit" in the deal are contributor's funds. Rather than dance around the issue, it might make more sense to require contributions of all members, and discard the shopworn pretense of an open information sharing community. The risk is you may lose some members who provide some of the valuable content that makes the site the way it is, but you're doing that anyway with slowly restricting access. Perhaps I'm just used to the initial concept of the internet as an open resource. But I guess that's business, and I also guess that perhaps we're better off without the hypocrisy.
Administrator
Every woodworking forum here is open to everyone to view and post without any fees.
Honestly I can't see how anyone could complain about access to woodworking information here considering that we pay handsomely every month to provide this service. Those who are willing to donate 50 cents per month receive a few extra perks, certainly you can't find anything sinister about that.
.
No complaints here. Once we broke the 10,000 member mark one has to consider the things that go on in supporting and moderating a group of that size. We are way past that now and the same rules and requirements don't apply that might on a board a few thousand. The benefits outweigh any issues I have seen. Rock on.
"A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".
– Samuel Butler
Member
I'll add my perspective.... I am _brand_new_ to woodworking. I'm spending a lot of time prioritizing order of tool purchase, figuring out how much to spend on specific tools, and figuring out quality level of different manufacturers of a given tool. The Deals and Discounts forum provides a lot of collective wisdom to somebody new such as myself on the subject of tool acquisition. I've been using it to help build my knowledge on what a good/reasonable deal really is.
The value of the D&D forum goes way beyond just 1 person being able to pick up a planer for a great price as the result of a specific thread. If I wanted to know the pros and cons of a Jet vs Grizzly planer, that's one of the forums that I'd visit/search to see opinions on how the 2 stack up. Sawmill Creek being such a open resource of a lot of knowledge is what attracted me to visit the forums. It's immediately obvious to a visitor that there is some amazing knowledge that is being shared here. By closing off non-contributor access to D&D, that open-ness seems to diminish.
For the last several days, I've been verge of pulling the trigger and going to contributor status. I'm further from that point now. As someone that does not have a long history at Sawmill Creek, I can't help but wonder whether the direction will result in the open sharing of information slowly closing off. What's the next step?
Oh, and by implementing the change without any type of notice (either in advance or when it was implemented).... let's just say I expected better from a quality forum.
Member
This whole thread is amazing to me. One comment that "I've gotten a lot of information here but not sure I want to pull the trigger and become a contributor." Come on, you spend more than that on coffee at Starbucks.
This forum has some of the best ww'ing information, finest people, politest atmosphere, and lowest contribution costs you will find anywhere. If you can't afford 50 cents a month, move on. <RANT OFF>
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