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Thread: Table saw safety question

  1. #1

    Table saw safety question

    Hey guys I am very new to working with woodworking tools. I have used power tools all my life but table saws and routers and such are new to me.
    Background I am a industrial health safety and environmental compliance professional so safety is my living.

    I want to confirm something I learned while doing my research on safe cutting on the table saw.

    Crosscuts
    Confirm this is accurate please
    It is safe to cross cut a workpiece using the fence only when the distance between the blade and the fence does not exceed the width against the fence.
    So say for example I have a workpiece I have ripped to 34.5 inches by 48 inches. I now won't my workpiece to be 34.5 inches by 24 inches.
    This is safe to cross cut against the fence because the 24 inches between the blade and the fence is less than the 34.5 inches against the fence.

    If wanted to cross cut my workpiece to say 34.5 x 40 inches I would then need to use a cross cut sled or miter gauge to safety make this cut

    Just wanting to make sure I understand this fundamental.

    Thanks in advance

  2. #2
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    In general you want the long side against the fence. A minor exception for me would be For large pieces of plywood or glue ups where a reasonable amount is riding the fence. Like a 36” by 48” sheet, I’d be okay with 36” against the fence.

    With your level of experience I’d definitely use a crosscut sled. It is a vital jig in the shop. You should make one, or two or three, if you don’t.

    Edit: “It is safe to cross cut a workpiece using the fence only when the distance between the blade and the fence does not exceed the width against the fence.” The distance from the blade to the fence has no bearing in my opinion. Weather the distance is 2” or 20”, there is weight and friction dragging on the board that could cause it to pull away from the fence and cause kickback.
    Last edited by Matt Day; 04-09-2019 at 12:27 PM.

  3. #3
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    No rule is able to cover all situations. A little common sense (sadly lacking in some cases, hence the strict rules) should be used.

    In your example, there is 34.5" to bear against the fence and plenty of room to safely control it with both hands. I would, and have many times, cut it.

    Safety tip: In this case the danger is pushing too much with the left hand on the left side of the blade. This could still pinch at the end of the cut and cause kickback. A saw with a riving knife protects against this. If you don't have a riving knife look up the many youtube vids on 'splitters', which do the job in a slightly different way.

    Now, let's change your example to a 1x6" board 40" long that you want to crosscut to 24". Picture how much (6") is bearing against the fence. Try pushing that through is almost a guarantee of getting a kickback right where it hurts.

    This is the kind of situation the rule is really about. You should not try something like this , even with a riving knife. You should use your miter guage with a long backer board screwed to it, and the fence far enough aside that if the wood turns outward at the end of the cut, it cannot jam between the fence and blade.

    Hope this helps.

    Dammit, While I was taking forever to correct my spelling, Matt snuck in there with a great answer.
    Last edited by Rick Potter; 04-09-2019 at 12:33 PM.
    Rick Potter

    DIY journeyman,
    FWW wannabe.
    AKA Village Idiot.

  4. #4
    I don't think there is a hard set rule here. The key is to keep enough of your workpiece to prevent racking as it moves through the blade. I typically will crosscut using the fence if my piece is 12" or so wide. Of course the longer my cut off is the more contact is needed against the fence to control it.
    You also need enough space between your blade and fence to safely push it through while keeping your hands a safe distance away from the blade. There are options out there that help make this process safer. Just look at all of the push block options.
    If my sled is on the saw I will use it. I fell much safer when I can use it. That is why is on the saw most of the time.

  5. #5
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    Mat
    Yes, that is a good "rule" to follow.
    "The first thing you need to know, will likely be the last thing you learn." (Unknown)

  6. #6
    Thanks guys I should have also said that I would not consider anything under 18 inches in width.
    Like a 1x6 I would never crosscut without a sled at any length

  7. #7
    Your question reminds me of a quote years ago regarding a court case where the judge declares that he knows something is obscene when he sees it: "I know it when I see it".
    As you gain experience and develop safe habits, you will acquire the ability to determine when is a procedure is safe without having to do the calculations.
    As I see it, the act of crosscutting, using just a fence, is made dangerous by the ability of the worker to pivot the workpiece using the contact with the fence as a fulcrum. The shorter the piece (against the fence), the more chance of pivoting. Also, the length of the workpiece opposite the blade (on the side away from the fence) as well as the resistance of the workpiece against the table surface contribute to torquing the workpiece.
    Interestingly the most frequent comment accompanying the posts of those who are unfortunate to confess here about injuring themselves was that they make a stupid mistake. Of course, I read those posts carefully to learn how to stay safe.
    Years ago, I recalled bemoaning the fact that as an intern, I had to scrub for surgery with the worst surgeons (more advanced residents didn't want to work with these guys because they didn't get to do much). Finally I figured out that my purpose was to watch them closely, so that I wouldn't make the stupid mistakes that invariably got them into trouble.

  8. #8
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    I would like to add. Sleds are great but they do have limitations plus who wants to store a fixture that’s nearly a half sheet of plywood. Plywood sleds can warp just like solid wood.
    A straight edge and circular saw is very reliable.
    good luck
    Aj

  9. #9
    Mat,
    In general, 'Over-square' is a decent guide to start, but , gee whizz, that's a real small table to be cutting any panels. The open air between the fence rails gives me pause too. Can you make a table for this thing to drop into?

  10. #10
    Jeff portability is key for I don't have a garage or shop. So I store everything in my spare bedroom shop. When it's time to work I take it all out to the driveway. Major pia but it's what I have to work with. I do have an out feed table I could actually build an infeed also. I generally don't handle material wider than 24 inches though. I rip sheet goods in half before cutting anything on the saw.

  11. #11
    Somehow my post got erased. But I have the dewalt dwe7491rs. I need the small footprint and portability of the saw. Because I don't have a garage or shop. I just use a spare bedroom to store tools and do everything in the driveway. The saw is a beast for rip cuts but falls on its face for cross cuts. I'm building a sled for it but I really don't think I'm going to get much use of it due to short infeed. Probably a track saw is in my near future

  12. #12
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    Mat that’s a basic Entry level saw. Good for a job site for ripping molding and such.
    Most woodworkers will outgrow that saw pretty quickly.
    Its just not good enough.
    Aj

  13. #13
    Don't disagree Andrew. Once I get my shop built the plan is to upgrade to a more suitable saw. For now it meets my needs even if I have to suplament with a track saw

  14. #14
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    In general, I would agree in principle with the "rule" you ask about, Mat. But as others have said, not every rule or principle can be applied to every situation.

    I think it's important to "listen to your gut" with a lot of this stuff – if your instinct tells you some operation isn't safe, very often (in my experience, at least) I've found, later, that my gut was right, even if I couldn't identify what was unsafe at the time. Sometimes in retrospect, you'll realize why your gut was sending you those signals. On the other hand, some things that seem unsafe to a beginner are actually safe (don't ask for an example, because I can't think of one right now, but I know that has also happened to me), but in general I don't think you can go too far wrong by trusting your instincts.

    Remember that machines are by their nature "lazy" and will do almost anything to avoid doing the work of cutting, whether that means pushing the workpiece away from the blade or lifting it up off the table, or throwing it at you, or grabbing and throwing a lathe gouge, or smacking you in the gut with the workpiece at the drill press, or breaking your arm when the drill bit on a hand drill punches through a piece of steel and jams...it's helpful to think of them as recalcitrant mules, sometimes (don't stand behind the mule or the TS blade!)

    Have fun and welcome to the forum...
    Last edited by Jacob Reverb; 04-09-2019 at 4:43 PM.

  15. #15
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    Good to hear. For me a stationary tablesaw with outfeed to your liking is a proper tablesaw. Much safer.
    Good luck. Sounds like you have lots of satisfying fun ahead.
    Aj

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