AR-15 receivers

[Steve Kelsey]

Anyone have any experience with these? I have the potential for a few jobs doing them. I know they can be done as I have seen them before but I have no idea what the starting point for my settings might need to be.

[Mike Null]

Speaking with no experience I am aware that there are ATF regulations that stipulate certain marking parameters depending on the nature of the weapon. In general, due to depth requirements, those marks cannot be made with a laser.

Rather than supply misinformation I suggest you consult the ATF guidelines.

[Steve Kelsey]

Thanks, Mike. I'll definitely look into it. I did do some more research and found that the material is type 3 anodized. I haven't done this material before but I will be able to do some testing once I check into further details. If anyone does have rough settings for anodized - it is a 40W epilog mini that I am using. I was going to use 100/50 to start and see how it looks.

[Neil Pabia]

I'm new here but this is a field where I do have some knowledge. You must be licensed by the BATF in order to make any modifications to any firearm. That includes any repairs, engravings, modifications, or any alterations. The license is not too difficult to get and is worth having if you are going to do any work on any firearm.
http://www.fega.com/members/batf.html

[Gary Hair]

In general, due to depth requirements, those marks cannot be made with a laser.

The depth requirements are only relevant to marking serial numbers and/or part numbers. Decorative embellishments have absolutely no requirements whatsoever. You also don't have to have an FFL to engrave "while you wait". If your customer leaves it overnight then you must have and FFL. Check with your local BATF office to be sure, but that's what they told me.

[Steve Kelsey]

My understanding is the same as yours, Gary, on the 'while you wait' aspect. Thanks for the link, Neil. Good reference!

[Guy Mathews]

Is this regulation for the stocks and grips or does it just apply to the metal parts of a firearm?

I can understand if the entire gun is left in my possesion overnight, but just the wood parts has me confused and concerned since I have been manufacturing a lot of different wood stocks lately.

For example, if you were to laser engrave a design on a stock that a customer brings to you, are you required to hold this license?

I can understand the barrel or the reciever but a piece of wood?

I am going to leap over to firearmstalk.com and see if I can get clarification on this one.

Meanwhile, if anyone else can provide a straightforward layman's tem explanation please do so. Thanks in advance guys.

[Jack Burton]

If you take possession of the serialized (controlled) component of a firearm you are required to hold a FFL (Federal Firearms License). For example:an AR15 the "lower" or lower receiver is the controlled portion ( the part with the trigger, lower half). On a Glock the frame ,the "lower portion", not the slide/barrel assembly(although the slide and barrel on Glocks are serialized), is the controlled item. I do these "controlled" items while-you-wait.
You can purchase an "upper" for an AR15, a slide for a Glock/1911 etc, without going through a dealer, therefore those items do not require an FFL.....make sense?


Stocks/grips/wood are of NO consequence whatsoever.

You may have local laws that supersede this information. In no way is this information legal advice.

[Mike Null]

One of my customers told me that the rules required any modified receiver to have the name and location of the owner at the same depth as the serial number. Don't know that that's accurate but he seemed to be sure.

EDIT:
The following was found on another forum:

"here is a response I received directly from the ATF (an Industry Operations Investigator) on Jan. 26, 2009:"

Thank you for your inquiry regarding the building of a semi-automatic AR-15 lower receiver. To answer your question, yes it is legal for you to build, for your own use, a semi-automatic rifle with the measurements described in your email. I have attached some information obtained from the Firearms Technology section of the ATF.gov website regarding the subject and it might help to clarify the “non-sporting” classification as well. Also, the firearm receiver will need to be marked by engraving, casting or stamping your name, city, and state in a clearly visible and legible manner using letters and numbers no less than 1/16” in height and no less than .003” in depth. You will need to make sure that you are in compliance with all applicable state and local laws and regulations regarding this specific type of weapon. If you have additional questions concerning this matter please feel free to contact me at the number below.
Looks to be pretty clear cut what they want and what the requirements are.

[Gary Hair]

Mike,
You (we) are talking about modifying or engraving a receiver yet your post is referring to manufacturing a weapon for your own use - two very different things. You are confusing the issue with irrelevant information that doesn't pertain to the question at hand.

One of my customers told me that the rules required any modified receiver to have the name and location of the owner at the same depth as the serial number. Don't know that that's accurate but he seemed to be sure.

EDIT:
The following was found on another forum:

"here is a response I received directly from the ATF (an Industry Operations Investigator) on Jan. 26, 2009:"

Thank you for your inquiry regarding the building of a semi-automatic AR-15 lower receiver. To answer your question, yes it is legal for you to build, for your own use, a semi-automatic rifle with the measurements described in your email. I have attached some information obtained from the Firearms Technology section of the ATF.gov website regarding the subject and it might help to clarify the “non-sporting” classification as well. Also, the firearm receiver will need to be marked by engraving, casting or stamping your name, city, and state in a clearly visible and legible manner using letters and numbers no less than 1/16” in height and no less than .003” in depth. You will need to make sure that you are in compliance with all applicable state and local laws and regulations regarding this specific type of weapon. If you have additional questions concerning this matter please feel free to contact me at the number below.
Looks to be pretty clear cut what they want and what the requirements are.

[Neil Pabia]

Steve, if the owner of the AR-15s is a dealer and has an FFL, you may be able to sub-contract to him and do the work under his liscense. It seems to be a grey area, but when in doubt don't do it or make sure you have it in writing from the BATF that you are allowed to do it, the letter must be specific for the job. This is just my opinion and I have posted in an effort to save you a lot of headache that could result from a simple misunderstanding.

[Mike Null]

Gary

I had no intention of confusing the issue but it is still my understanding that if you build (manufacture/assemble) your own you must include your name and location marked to the same depth as the serial number. (AR15's)

I agree that decorative markings do not fall under ATF guidelines.

[Lee DeRaud]

I had no intention of confusing the issue but it is still my understanding that if you build (manufacture) your own you must include your name and location marked to the same depth as the serial number. (AR15's)

The confusion is due to the fact that nobody on this thread was talking about making a receiver from scratch.

[Mike Null]

I agree with that but if you buy the parts and assemble (build) it yourself then where does it fit with the regs?

[Lee DeRaud]

I agree with that but if you buy the parts and assemble (build) it yourself then where does it fit with the regs?

The key concept here is that the lower receiver is the firearm as far as the BATF is concerned.

To "build" an AR15, you need a lower receiver. You have two choices: make one from scratch or buy one. If you make one, you're a manufacturer and have to jump through all the manufacturer hoops. If you buy one, it's just like buying a complete assembled AR15 as far as federal law is concerned. The process for buying it is exactly the same as for buying an assembled AR15, same forms, has to be transferred through an FFL holder, the whole nine yards. And it will already have a serial number and manufacturer's identification stamped on it.

Everything else is just "parts": under federal law, you can buy them online, mail-order, whatever, no FFL required, and assemble your AR15. Note that I said "assemble". You are not "manufacturing" or "building" a firearm, you bought a firearm: the lower receiver.

(Yes, I know it is possible to take a collection of perfectly legal parts and assemble an illegal weapon, but that is not the subject of this thread. And yes, I know there are state and local laws that need to be taken into account: I live in California, please don't remind me.)