Solar panels popping up in your town?

[Mitchell Andrus]

If your inverters meet UL standards, then it shuts down automatically when the grid dies. Further, it won't work turn back on until there is grid power for 5 minutes.

Sooooo...... the solar power generated just spills out on the ground? Can't it be scooped up and saved or filtered and used for some lights or something? Seems like a waste.
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[Glenn Vaughn]

Seems odd that someone else wants to tell everyone what to do with their property, and everyone says they don't like the boards telling them what to do....until someone else does something they don't like, and then they get another rule or board set up to stop it.

I used to work for the City of Palo Alto. There was a cul-de-sac with three houses at the end. The owner of one of the side houses came to planning for permits for a second story - the owner of the middle hose did not object so the permits were granted. The owner of the other side house cam in a year or so later for the same. Once again the owner of the middle house did not object and the permits were granted.

A couple of years later the owner of the middle house came in for permission to build a second story. Both owners of the side hopuses objected and the permits were denied.

The owner came bac for permits to expand his house toward the rear of his lot (a very large lot). The permits were denied because he would have had to cut down a large tree on his lot. The tree was considered "historic". He ended up selling and moving out of Palo Alto.

One problem with Planning Boards (and most govenrment boards) is that many of the members fell a sense of power over their fellow citizens and are not afraid to wield it. I can speak from direct experience here - I was on our PLanning Commision for 6 years and on the City Council for 8 years. It was a constant fight to get the comision to be reasonable (the council as well).

[Art Mulder]

Sooooo...... the solar power generated just spills out on the ground? Can't it be scooped up and saved or filtered and used for some lights or something? Seems like a waste.
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If you want to save it, you're talking about banks of batteries, and all the control stuff that goes along with that. That really adds to the upfront cost.

Here in Ontario the gov't is trying to encourage Solar, so they have set up something called the microFIT program. Basically you get a contract with the gov't, and they buy ALL your power produced by your solar panels at 80 cents/kw for 20 years. And you buy back all the power you need for your house at market rates (currently around 7-8 cents I think)

So you just get your panels hooked up to one meter feeding into the grid, while another meter is for your incoming power. No batteries.

My brother is getting one of these and he figures that the microFIT program is going to turn his outlay into a 6-7yr payback, and then he still will have 13 years under the microFIT contract.

...art

[Dan Friedrichs]

I have wondered how they handle back feeding into the Power Grid when in a storm, Trees take down Power Lines. So the wires are down and the Power Guys are working on the lines. Then a System back feeds the downed lines and zaps the power guys.... I guess it would be one more step for the Power Company finding the guys that have the ability to back feed the Grid selling excess power back. I saw the map of my area showing all the power poles and Transformers.

I know it was a problem years ago with amateur's hooking up Gas Generators improperly to a power panel and back feeding the downed wires.

AL

They have algorithms in them that prevent them from "islanding" - ie, operating without the grid present.

[Drew Sanderson]

If you want to save it, you're talking about banks of batteries, and all the control stuff that goes along with that. That really adds to the upfront cost.

and decreases efficiency thus costing you even more.

[Joe Pelonio]

With lots of 100' fir trees, plus big-leaf maples, alders and western redcedars, plus a city tree cutting ordinance, and only a guaranteed 60 days of sun here, I have still seen a few homes putting solar collectors up. Doesn't seem like a good investment here despite the continued electric rate increases. You really can't use the solar water heating panels here, which were gaining popularity in CA when we left there in the early '90s.

[Curt Harms]

about 2 sets of solar panels. No cutting trees or anything like that, just "unsightly", "impacting my property value" NIMBY at its finest.

[Matt Meiser]

I'm so glad I live in a rural area so I don't have to deal with this crap. At least as much--there was a big brouhaha (and by that I mean someone stuck a flier in our mailbox and the lady next door said something) over someone trying to split their 10 acre lot into two 5 acre lots for a new house.

I haven't seen many around here but there is a guy who's got a homeade solar heating system near me that I guess he's had running for 40 years. He's got what kind of looks like a greenhouse on one end of his house and a blower that circulates air through there to heat the house. Yeah its somewhat unsightly but not a whole lot more than my propane tank.

I'm more interested in wind myself. Its ALWAYS windy here. I want to get a weather station to determine if there's enough to make a windmill worthwhile.

[David Weaver]

One problem with Planning Boards (and most govenrment boards) is that many of the members fell a sense of power over their fellow citizens and are not afraid to wield it. I can speak from direct experience here - I was on our PLanning Commision for 6 years and on the City Council for 8 years. It was a constant fight to get the comision to be reasonable (the council as well).

I don't think what you said can be overstated. In the historical area where I grew up, the people who end up on the boards are the ones who want to tell people what to do. The assumption that it's going to be 5 or 6 people like you and me who just want to prevent people from putting a mobile home on their front lawn turns out to be untrue.

And, as you pointed out very well, it's all about who squeaks loudest, not consistent application or fairness.

[Mitchell Andrus]

I don't think what you said can be overstated. In the historical area where I grew up, the people who end up on the boards are the ones who want to tell people what to do. The assumption that it's going to be 5 or 6 people like you and me who just want to prevent people from putting a mobile home on their front lawn turns out to be untrue.

And, as you pointed out very well, it's all about who squeaks loudest, not consistent application or fairness.

Actually, you got it a bit upside down. Planning Bds and Boards of Adjustment listen to presentations from applicants to be sure that what they want to do is legal. I as a board member and chairman NEVER told any applicant what to do.

If they come to the board with a legal use, they get approved. Period. End of story, they get a permit. If what they seek permits for is not within community guidelines they don't. The application process also gives affected neighbors an opportunity to make their concerns known so the applicant can adjust the plans so those concerns can be minimized or eliminated.

If the community as a whole decide they support the exclusion of single-wides via zoning and land-use controls, then applications for single-wides don't even come in for a hearing. If they do make an application for a single-wide, are then turned down and they sue, they will fail in court also. This has nothing to do with 5 or 6 people telling others what to do. If zoning allows construction of a house you can build that without even coming to the board for a hearing.

This is how we keep your neighbors' 3 story addition from being built within a foot of your property line, muffler shops from popping up next to protected wetlands and $30,000.00 single-wides from being dropped next to $700,000.00 homes.

Not a perfect system, but it usually works to the benefit of the community as a whole.
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[Mike Cutler]

I have wondered how they handle back feeding into the Power Grid when in a storm, Trees take down Power Lines. So the wires are down and the Power Guys are working on the lines. Then a System back feeds the downed lines and zaps the power guys.... I guess it would be one more step for the Power Company finding the guys that have the ability to back feed the Grid selling excess power back. I saw the map of my area showing all the power poles and Transformers.

I know it was a problem years ago with amateur's hooking up Gas Generators improperly to a power panel and back feeding the downed wires.

AL

Al

The investment in a solar system is pretty substantial. There is quite a bit of electronic control and protection built into the system. This puts a solar system installation, at least on a large scale, out of the reach of most DIY'r. In fact to obtain the tax credits/rebates in some states requires that an approved contractor perform the installation.

As for the gas fired generators; If a little gas fired generator tries to buck the grid it loses. Restoring power to a thousand people won't be held up by a few home generators installed incorrectly.
Plugging the generator into the dryer receptacle and openeing the main breaker in your panel does not completely disconnect your home from the grid. If a person really wants to have a backup generator, and there's nothing wrong with that, the money spent on a code legal disconnect installation is money well spent.

Sorry for the shameless plug about generator installation, but the line crews really have enough trouble on their hands after a storm as it is.

[Ken Garlock]

Throw away your solar panels, and solve the problem with Nuclear Power. 70% of France uses nuclear power, and they reprocess the used fuel rods to recover the remaining fuel. If the French, those great warriors of WWI and WWII can overcome the problems of atomic power, why can't the US?
The supreme court has already ruled that YOUR property can condemned if a some company wants to build an apartment of shopping center on it. So, go out and condemn a section of rural property and build a nuclear power plant. The US navy has already solved the problem of how to run nuclear power plants. Hummm, maybe we need a new branch of the Navy to run land-based plants.

[Bryan Morgan]

A few people around me have solar panels. Solicitors are always trying to sell them to me. They always talk about how it saves money yadda yadda.... sure. If you do a little math and think about how much these panels cost, it would take me about 10 years to start "saving money". No thanks. I'll stick to the power grid.

[Bryan Morgan]

I used to work for the City of Palo Alto. There was a cul-de-sac with three houses at the end. The owner of one of the side houses came to planning for permits for a second story - the owner of the middle hose did not object so the permits were granted. The owner of the other side house cam in a year or so later for the same. Once again the owner of the middle house did not object and the permits were granted.

A couple of years later the owner of the middle house came in for permission to build a second story. Both owners of the side hopuses objected and the permits were denied.

The owner came bac for permits to expand his house toward the rear of his lot (a very large lot). The permits were denied because he would have had to cut down a large tree on his lot. The tree was considered "historic". He ended up selling and moving out of Palo Alto.

One problem with Planning Boards (and most govenrment boards) is that many of the members fell a sense of power over their fellow citizens and are not afraid to wield it. I can speak from direct experience here - I was on our PLanning Commision for 6 years and on the City Council for 8 years. It was a constant fight to get the comision to be reasonable (the council as well).

Its stuff like this that furthers my argument that there is no such thing as private property. The fact that something I supposedly own can be dictated and taxed tells me I don't really own anything. I don't think this is how it was meant to be...

[Mitchell Andrus]

Throw away your solar panels, and solve the problem with Nuclear Power. 70% of France uses nuclear power, and they reprocess the used fuel rods to recover the remaining fuel. If the French, those great warriors of WWI and WWII can overcome the problems of atomic power, why can't the US?
The supreme court has already ruled that YOUR property can condemned if a some company wants to build an apartment of shopping center on it. So, go out and condemn a section of rural property and build a nuclear power plant. The US navy has already solved the problem of how to run nuclear power plants. Hummm, maybe we need a new branch of the Navy to run land-based plants.

Couldn't have said it better myself. In 30 or 40 years, it'll come down to nuclear 'cause when the oil's all gone and the wind isn't blowing and it's dark out, 12 billion people are all gonna want to cook dinner at the same time.

I've pre-ordered a "Mr. Fusion" home unit. ....Pays for itself in 400 years, give or take.

http://www.coolest-gadgets.com/20071...r-power-plant/

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