This Old House - Roxbury

[Dan Friedrichs]

So...this is supposed to be "affordable, low-income" housing?

Stainless steel appliances, new high-end front load washer/dryers, single piece of solid marble on the countertops, custom-made plaster decorative medallions on the light fixtures, marble fireplace, solid interior doors, crown moulding, etc, etc..

Given the house in its initial condition, what interior finishing could have been MORE high-end?

I should find a "low-income" house....

[Mitchell Andrus]

I'm thinking that for the money spent on that place, 3 or 4 in Boston or 5 or 6 homes in New Orleans could have been built.

When are we going to get real about how we spend our tax money?

I'm hoping we're seeing plenty of donations on this one. I'd like to see the final accounting on this one. It's a public project and it should be available. Anyone in the Boston area... care to give a try?
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[Dan Mages]

I was thinking the same thing. What a waste of money. I am sure the appliances are donated (all GE, a sponsor of the show). But many of those high end features have no business being in a low income home, not only for their initial cost, but long term maintenance as well.

Dan

[Brian Elfert]

Would anyone watch This Old House if they installed laminate countertops, rental grade appliances, cheap vinyl windows, and luan hollow core doors, and painted pine trim?

[Phil Thien]

Would anyone watch This Old House if they installed laminate countertops, rental grade appliances, cheap vinyl windows, and luan hollow core doors, and painted pine trim?

I would. I always watch. And they could demonstrate ways to do more with less.

I imagine those appliances and counter tops and a lot of the other stuff was donated. TOH can get anything they want with a phone call.

[Matt Meiser]

Those company T-Shirts visible on screen during the install or the company name in the credits are probably worth many times what the donation costs. Plus its probably tax deductible since the show is produced by public TV.

My company happens to have the same name as a regular TOH supplier. We don't do anything at all related but we get regular phone calls. I'm sure we get a lot of web traffic as a result too because our result ranks 1 and theirs 2.

[Randal Stevenson]

Would anyone watch This Old House if they installed laminate countertops, rental grade appliances, cheap vinyl windows, and luan hollow core doors, and painted pine trim?

I would. Over the years they have shown both techniques and new, retrofit products that are more aimed for the DIY'er, then what I refer to as the wantabe's. (those who are either incapable, or want it now and pay for it later, whether credit card, or worse, hire something done, then expect the person they hired (and agreed to pay), to accept payments (fraud)).

This certainly is a different show from when I started watching it.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Would anyone watch This Old House if they installed laminate countertops, rental grade appliances, cheap vinyl windows, and luan hollow core doors, and painted pine trim?

I understand the use of better-quality materials if they last longer and are a better long-term investment, but the need for a solid piece of imported marble for the countertops?

I probably wouldn't care to see them install pre-fab laminate countertops, but there was an Ask TOH episode where Tommy fabricated a laminate countertop on-site - that was very interesting. From a large sheet of laminate, he made a countertop with no seams. That's impressive, and more reasonable.


I understand the donations/advertising/tax write-offs/etc, but it frustrates me to see this billed as "affordable" housing. A yacht would be affordable if someone GAVE it to me. This gives people (perhaps young people looking into their first home purchase) a horribly distorted idea of what a typical/reasonable/livable first home purchase ought to be like. This seems to be a systemic problem in our society - ever watch some TV show and think, "Wow - these people have an entirely reasonable, normal lifestyle given their income?"

Did anyone else catch the episode where they went back to an older "affordable" house they did in DC? Kevin said, "We always thought of this space as a dining room, but you're using it as....oh, humm...." Was it just me, or was the disappointment in his voice palpable?

[Curt Harms]

I would. I always watch. And they could demonstrate ways to do more with less.

I imagine those appliances and counter tops and a lot of the other stuff was donated. TOH can get anything they want with a phone call.

I heard Norm speak at the old Ft. Washington PA. show. For private jobs, the materials are donated but the owners also get a 1099 miscellaneous income form. They owe taxes as if the "donations" were income. I don't know how the value is/was determined.

[Matt Meiser]

That makes sense. The families Extreme Makeover Home Edition chooses have to claim everything they are given as winnings from what I understand. Then they have to go out and get a mortgage on the house to pay the taxes. Last I heard a few families went to foreclosure.

[Neal Clayton]

the plaster medallions actually don't cost that much.

can't find much fault with the rest though, heh.

[Eric DeSilva]

...the wantabe's. (those who are either incapable, or want it now and pay for it later, whether credit card, or worse, hire something done, then expect the person they hired (and agreed to pay), to accept payments (fraud))...

OK, I'll bite because I'm confused. First, you seem to disparage credit. But, whether a car loan or a mortgage or commercial credit or a credit card, credit facilitates people purchasing things. How many people in the US could afford to buy homes--or even cars--in the absence of credit? How many businesses would operate without credit? Certainly credit can be abused, but used appropriately, I'm not sure I see a problem.

I'm also not sure how the show implicates or encourages the latter scenario you are describing--hiring someone under false pretenses to do a job.

[Randal Stevenson]

OK, I'll bite because I'm confused. First, you seem to disparage credit. But, whether a car loan or a mortgage or commercial credit or a credit card, credit facilitates people purchasing things. How many people in the US could afford to buy homes--or even cars--in the absence of credit? How many businesses would operate without credit? Certainly credit can be abused, but used appropriately, I'm not sure I see a problem.

I'm also not sure how the show implicates or encourages the latter scenario you are describing--hiring someone under false pretenses to do a job.

Lets just say, I have known too many people who abuse credit, and those who give it to them. Too many get it before learning about responsibility or that one shouldn't be doing things on impulse all the time.

The later, is due to someone I know who hired a member of their family to do some work recently, after watching some of the shows. It was AFTER, that they said they couldn't come up with the money (contract) and expected him to take payments.

[Eric DeSilva]

In all fairness, however, these issues are pretty tough to lay at the feet of TOW, no? I suppose you could argue that TOW is convincing everyone that even those with low incomes warrant granite, but that seems like a real stretch. Ultimately credit abuse and fraud are issues of personal responsibility, and I would think that TOW generally promotes taking responsibility for what you do.

[Mitchell Andrus]

That makes sense. The families Extreme Makeover Home Edition chooses have to claim everything they are given as winnings from what I understand. Then they have to go out and get a mortgage on the house to pay the taxes. Last I heard a few families went to foreclosure.

More than a few of those who received a car on that famous Oprah show had to sell them, pay the taxes and buy something cheaper.
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