ClearVue - Poor Customer Service

[Paul Wunder]

The poster's experience is so unlike my dealings with Ed Morgano that it has me scratching my head as to whether there is more to this than we are being told. My dealings with Ed during my purchase and install of a CV1800 cyclone took place over 18 months. Many phone calls and emails by me with product questions, installation questions particular to my personal situation and errors on my part. I even called him eight months after my purchase because I could not find one of my blastgates that came with the unit . I asked him to send and bill me for another since I should have checked boxes upon arrival. Three days later, at his expense, a new blastgate arrived.

When I couldn't mount my cyclone in the usual manner with his provided brackets, I asked Ed for his advice. He responded with an emailed full color blueprint with dimensions to solve my problem (he never asked for a dime)

Like others, when I had problems, I emailed photos of my project for advice. One Saturday night when exchanged questions and answers four four hours. He stayed with me until my problems were solved.

I have always found Ed Morgano to be devoted to customer satisfaction unlike any other company that I have dealt with.

Is it possible that the other poster or Ed had a bad day? I would suggest that the other poster (or perhaps even Ed) take a deep breadth and start over. Perhaps contact his son, Matt.

Paul

[Steven DeMars]

A few clarifications- I have a couple thousand hours in Navy jets and quite a few private plane hours also, so I know what I'm talking about. The canopies are durable as were the windscreens in most WW II aircraft. They were all cut and drilled many times (stress points) during manufacture- if I were to count the number of holes around the edges used to mount just on half of a canopy (there are four on the EA-6B) - they would likely number close to 50.

As far as differences in application- not much- high velocity air often containing small particles, including wood chips (shop) and sand (Iraq, Afghanistan) impacting the plastic.

As I understand his rationale for using plastic, Ed built a Pentz cyclone for himself. He liked it so much that when he decided to build one for his son he wanted to see what was happening inside. He had experience in fabricating metal and plastics but thought that with his skills, woodworking tools, and some basic molds and heaters, he could make it from plastic easier than from metal.

But just not any plastic. He uses PETG (a thermoplastic polyester) which if you check the properties is well suited (likely better than Lexan, a polycarbonate, or Plexiglass, an acrylic) for THIS application. PETG is tough, machines well, can be solvent bonded, and has a low forming temperature. It was no longer a "novelty" but something Ed could easily and quickly "manufacture" with woodworking machines, a few jigs and heater units, without the need for welding or other special metal fabricating tools, and did not need priming and painting when done. Sounds like a wise decision!

Now as to the OP's problem. I think we might have a terminology problem. If he has a "crack"- an actual failure of the PETG then by all means Ed should replace it.

But . . . what I believe he has is an open seam- and overlap that has separated because it was possibly not bonded completely. The ClearVue mini top cylinder and lower cone are made by heat forming sheet PETG. They have overlapped seams which are solvent welded together. The cone is also solvent welded to the cylinder. A "crack", really a small gap, in this context, could be easily and adequately fixed with either caulk or solvent welded together. Remember, in most applications it is under suction so any caulk will be drawn into and seal any "crack". The solvent, Methylene Chloride and others (IPS is one brand), typically used to bond acrylics and other plastics is available at plastics stores (ACME, Reed, etc.), craft stores, and Ebay.

And yes, I have ClearVue mini, so I know how it is made:

Well to each his own when it comes to choosing tools or the material from which they are constructed.

I was merely pointing out that when you choose plastic over steel in any application such as this you can not expect the same "toughness" as steel. I am not knocking this product in no way. I have researched PETG. It appears to be tougher in some ways than Lexan, Plexiglass, etc . . . although it did say it scratches easier, which leads me to believe it is more pliable than the others . . . and this is a good thing for this application.

As to your knowledge of plastics and their use I can not think of anyone more qualified than someone like yourself who's life was dependent on it daily . . .

P.S. From what I could see, you have a nice shop . . .

[Thomas Pender]

When I buy a new product, asking me to jury rig a repair is unacceptable. I believe we put up with way too much nonsense and poor quality and the reason we put up with so much is that we do not insist upon what we are entitled to receive - a working, defect free product that is fit for its intended purpose.

Peter is reporting his experience and his experience does not seem satisfactory to me. Perhaps Clear Vue had a bad day - heck, even LV has bad days (but very few). Regardless, if I were hearing this one Peter gets a new replacement or his money back without having to pay for any shipping, which I believe, IMHO, is industrial strength nonsense.

[Andy McCormick]

You should have sent the picture with the paper through the crack.

[Jason Raksnis]

I dont know ED or would i ever buy a cyclone made of plastic, but it seems like everyone is quick to point the finger at the OP. There may well be some vital info left out from the OP, but suggesting that the OP fix the problem with silicone is just crazy. That should never come out the mouth of someone who produces a "superior" product. If i were the OP I would box the thing up and send it back with a note that says "no response needed". Buy an Oneida and call it a day!

Jason

[Joel Earl]

Interesting. Agree also with Peter here.

A question thats I have to ask of all - let us pretend this was say Harbor Freight, Grizzly, Rigid or many of the others out there. Imagine they sent to you the same reponse. Be fair and honest here - would you be loyal and defending that entity in the same way? I read almost every post here now whether relevant to me or not now so really one gets a feel for ones reponse(s), almost in advance.
Just asking is all ...................

[Ed Morgano]

Hello everyone. I'm trying to post a reply here but want to include the original picture that Peter sent me so we all know what we're talking about.....but i can't seem to figure out how to attach a picture from my computer.....help.

Ed Morgano
Clear Vue

[Ed Morgano]

Okay, I think I have the picture attached.

[Ed Morgano]

First, Peter didn’t post the picture that he sent me and I’ve noticed that the discussion has digressed into trying to make repairs to clear plastic.
The crack is in a .030 skin of white PVC plastic and it’s about 1” long. As stated earlier, we machine a “V” in the ½” PVC foam board leaving about .030”. We then heat the skin, bend it and glue the seam together. The crack is only in the skin. Clearly it’s a defect which we could repair. The problem is we are here and Peter is there and he would have to ship it back to us in order for us to make the repairs. We have stopped making these so sending a replacement isn’t an option, if it were, I would have sent him another one and told him to throw that one away. Giving a refund is an option (which I have offered to Peter but haven’t heard back from him) but the product still needs to be returned. All of this is much more trouble than simply putting a little caulk in the seam and being done with it.

[Dirk Lewis]

.... I should have been really scared with "clear plastic" canopies on my Navy jet "flying machine" moving along at 450+ kts, too!

So, if your canopy had a 'crack' in it would you like it replaced before you hit 450+ or just put a dollop of silicon on it to seal it and 'wing it' so to speak?

[Ed Morgano]

Dirk,
I'd be interested in your reaction to the picture that I posted above. Oh, by the way, our conversion lid doesn't go 450. :-)

Ed

[Alan Schaffter]

So, if your canopy had a 'crack' in it would you like it replaced before you hit 450+ or just put a dollop of silicon on it to seal it and 'wing it' so to speak?

Depends on the size and type of crack- some get a "stop crack" hole drilled in them, are sealed, then put back into service. If the crack is beyond spec. the canopy is replaced- remember we are talking personal safety, possibly in combat. While not necessarily life threatening, it is very noisy and extremely cold to fly in a jet with no canopy. Most ejections are through the canopy, but it is possible to survive a partial ejection while in flight like this A-6 Intruder BN:



It is very time consuming and expensive to replace an EA-6B Prowler canopy. The Prowler's primary role is electronic warfare- we jammed enemy radars with high powered jammer pods. To shield the crew and ensure they could still procreate- the inside of the canopies were coated with gold!!! (that gold tint in the pic is more than the sun's reflection!)

[Jim O'Dell]

Well, there's always the rest of the story. It would have helped to see the picture from the first so we all knew what we were talking about. Yes it's a shame that the crack happened. Again it might have been from shipping. Evidently no damage was noticed then, but that's not to say it wasn't there and just wasn't seen. I think the repair is a feasible thing to recommend. Maybe Ed could have offered to ship a tube of silicone with the explanation that there were no more to replace with. Maybe he did? I remember getting notice that there were a few more and that was all. If Ed has offered to refund the purchase price when the unit is shipped back, or make the repair and keep it and enjoy, I'm not sure what else can be done. I'd say keep it and enjoy...there isn't another mini cyclone on the market that fits on a shop vac the same way. Jim.

[Doug Carpenter]

I thought we were talking about a crack in a clear plactic cyclone that sits on top of a shopvac. That picture looks like an entire dust collection unit or something.

One thing I am starting to learn is that I shouldn't comment on these customer service posts. It seems to me that it is always a result of poor communication.

[Carl Hunsinger]

"... If Ed has offered to refund the purchase price when the unit is shipped back, or make the repair and keep it and enjoy, I'm not sure what else can be done..."

In my book, real customer service would be for Clearvue to offer three options:

1) Clearvue pays shipping, both ways, and repairs the unit, no questions asked.

2) Clearvue pays return shipping, and cheerfully issues a full refund

3) Clearvue ships (overnight) a tube of caulk to allow the buyer to perform the repair himself, thereby avoiding the time and hassle of returning the unit

Just my two cents...

Carl