Run out on G1023slw TS arbor flange

[Tony Shea]

I recently purchased the R4511 as this was what my budget allowed me at the time. I had the A-line-it system already and decided to use it on my table saw alignment. I was shocked when I did a measurement of my saws arbor run-out. It came out to be under .001" and really was closer to .000" as there was fluctuation while rotating the arbor. I have to admit that I was very impressed with Ridgid for these results. The fence on the other hand was a pain. I ended up with a dip of around .020" in the center of the fence near the center hole. I tried to get my service center to take it back to get a new one but he wouldn't as he didn't think I could get a better one. He also didn't have the right equipment to measure it and didn't really believe me. Not this issue caused me many saw marks as I just couldn't get the fence adjusted correctly. Not until I put some fence faces on with shims in the low spots did things start to work correctly. No more saw marks. I would agree with everyone else in that your poor performance has more to do with fence misalignment than your arbor run-out. That or an out of flat blade.

[Don Jarvie]

Are the rip cuts coming from the saw accurate. If the fence is set for 2 inches are you getting 2 inches the whole way?

Check to see if you need to kick the fence out at the top a hair. My fence wasn't cutting that accurate so I adjusted the fence and it's pretty good.

All I am concerned about is when I set the fence to 2 inches the rip is 2 inches top to bottom. With the kick out it looks like it will not be accurate but it is.

Give it a shot.

[Tony Shea]

I agree with the above. I keep my fence so that the back end of the fence is out away from the blade/miter slot by about .001". It isn't much but just enough that the back of the blade is not touching the peice after it's been cut. Some kick their fence out more and some keep it perfectly parallel. There are applications where I adjust my fence to be perfectly parallel such as raised panels, tenons, etc. But for basic rips I keep it out a tiny bit.

[Shawn Siegrist]

Did some checking last night into the table alignment and fence alignment. Checked the miter slots against the blade and the fence against the miter gauge, everything appeared correct according to my square. Looking at the fence something just didn't look right, I realized that it was angled toward the blade. I attached my dial indicator to my coping sled and checked the fence and it did in deed angle in towards the blade about 25 thousandths over the span of the fence. I also noticed that the HDPE that is on the fence varies a great deal, going to replace that with plywood or phenolic board this weekend. Realizing now that my square is off I checked the blade using the dial indicator and coping sled, it was off about 10 thousandths over the 10". Realigned the miter slots to the blade, and squared the fence to the miter slots using the dial indicator. Ran a few test cuts, made a few minor adjustments to the fence, and no more saw marks. Time to upgrade to a higher quality square, just bought that one in January from Lowes!

[Jim O'Dell]

Great news! I need to check my fence being square to the table too. I wanted to last night, after reading Don's post, when I got home, but my time evaporated quickly when I walked into the house. Glad the problem is solved. I have a decent square from Rockler, but I'm sure it's not perfect either. Hope it's close. Amazing what quality alignment tools can do for you, huh? Jim.

[Tony Shea]

I wouldn't trade my A-line-it alignment DI for the world. It is just so easy to use and garuntees that I get accurate readings. And the same goes for my two Starrett combination squares, 6" and 12". Two of the best layout tools I've ever spent money on. Glad to see you got your issue resolved. It's great to have people here on whims notice to give you a hand with something that you can't figure by yourself.

[Jason White]

Just goes to show that you should never expect any new machine to be perfectly tuned up out of the box. If it's perfect, you're lucky. If not, no big deal to get out the square and it's a great opportunity to get more acquainted with your machine.

At least you now know how to change an arbor!

Did some checking last night into the table alignment and fence alignment. Checked the miter slots against the blade and the fence against the miter gauge, everything appeared correct according to my square. Looking at the fence something just didn't look right, I realized that it was angled toward the blade. I attached my dial indicator to my coping sled and checked the fence and it did in deed angle in towards the blade about 25 thousandths over the span of the fence. I also noticed that the HDPE that is on the fence varies a great deal, going to replace that with plywood or phenolic board this weekend. Realizing now that my square is off I checked the blade using the dial indicator and coping sled, it was off about 10 thousandths over the 10". Realigned the miter slots to the blade, and squared the fence to the miter slots using the dial indicator. Ran a few test cuts, made a few minor adjustments to the fence, and no more saw marks. Time to upgrade to a higher quality square, just bought that one in January from Lowes!

[Rod Sheridan]

At least you now know how to change an arbor!

Well Jason, you are correct that Shawn did learn some new skills.

If I had bought a new motorcycle for example however, I wouldn't be too pleased to have to change the swingarm shaft myself.

I'd be looking to the vendor/manufacturer to make that right..........Rod.

[Joe Leigh]

This is not the first time I've heard that some HPDE fence faces vary in dimension over their length. Instead of replacing it try making a few light passes through the planer to true it up.

[Shawn Siegrist]

I thought about taking it off and running it through the jointer once and then the planer once to true it up. Does anyone know if it would damage the blades of the jointer or planer.

I didn't mind having to set up the saw or the jointers, I know that is part of buying a new tool. But every tool that I bought from grizzly had to have replacement parts sent to me. Their prices are great but they have some major quality control issues to work through.

[Shawn Siegrist]

I thought about running it through the jointer and then the planer, does anyone know if that will damage the blades at all?

[Shiraz Balolia]

If I had bought a new motorcycle for example however, I wouldn't be too pleased to have to change the swingarm shaft myself.

Rod.

If the customer is able to "drive" his purchase back to us, we would have been happy to change out the arbor for him at no cost. We did the next best thing and sent out parts at no charge and even gave him a gift certificate for $100.00. We love it when a customer brings the actual machine back to us, but realize that it is very inconvenient to move bulky machines weighing hundreds of lbs.

To some of the other points:

Quite often (and I am not saying it is the case here) we find that the measuring instruments used to check runout and table flatness used by customers is not accurate and when we get the item back, put a Starrett straight edge to the table, find out there is nothing wrong. Later we find that the customer used a $9.00 "straight edge" purchased from one of the box stores. So, we spend several hundred dollars in freight both ways to find out there was nothing wrong, and this happens more often than not.
Also, machines need to be set up right. Many times they are good to go out of the box. Sometimes things have shifted a hair and need to be adjusted before using the machine. Our manuals usually address this point.

We are in the process of addressing the fence HDPE issue. Actually, the HDPE (the white polyethelene) face of the fence is fine. The issue is that the steel body behind the face can be slightly off and the HDPE simply follows that contour. From a user's point of view, I would put on a 3/4" thick Baltic Birch plywood face and joint it on the jointer for total flatness. Before you guys jump on me and state that you should not have to do that with a new machine, I said "from a user's point of view". I also have a tablesaw in my shop, amongst many other machines. I had to "play" with my fence to get it running perfect. I still get saw marks, but that is because of my laziness in spending the time to find out what is causing it. The arbor's fine. The blade is a Forrest. It does not bother me because I generally run everything over my jointer after cutting on the tablesaw, unless it is plywood.

[Rod Sheridan]

If the customer is able to "drive" his purchase back to us, we would have been happy to change out the arbor for him at no cost. We did the next best thing and sent out parts at no charge and even gave him a gift certificate for $100.00. We love it when a customer brings the actual machine back to us, but realize that it is very inconvenient to move bulky machines weighing hundreds of lbs.

Shiraz, perhaps I shouldn't have used a motorcycle as an example, it was a bad choice as it's mobile.

In my opinion, sending out a service person would have been the best from my perspective as a customer. That's what I would have liked.

I certainly agree with your points about customers making errors in measurement etc. Once you get into measured values that are in the hundreds or thousands of an inch, few users have the training or instrumentation to make those sort of measurements.

It's easy to make errors that are larger than the tolerances you're measuring for.

Have you ever considered having a field service group to do machine commissioning, repair and maintenance?

I don't know how many customers would want to pay for that, although you must have a pretty large number of installed machines across the USA.

regards, Rod.

[Joe Leigh]

I thought about running it through the jointer and then the planer, does anyone know if that will damage the blades at all?

I do it all the time with a product called King Starboard, same product (HPDE). It does make quite a mess though, the shavings stick to everything. It's completely safe for woodworking tools.

[Van Huskey]

Shiraz, perhaps I shouldn't have used a motorcycle as an example, it was a bad choice as it's mobile.

In my opinion, sending out a service person would have been the best from my perspective as a customer. That's what I would have liked.

I certainly agree with your points about customers making errors in measurement etc. Once you get into measured values that are in the hundreds or thousands of an inch, few users have the training or instrumentation to make those sort of measurements.

It's easy to make errors that are larger than the tolerances you're measuring for.

Have you ever considered having a field service group to do machine commissioning, repair and maintenance?

I don't know how many customers would want to pay for that, although you must have a pretty large number of installed machines across the USA.

regards, Rod.

First of all I don't have any issue setting up a machine when it comes in, I don't think you do either Rod. Machines are very heavy and are shipped, usually, half way around the world and even with woodworking machines we need some tolerences measured to the thousandth of an inch. It would be nice to have a tech set them up but we do not "pay" for that since it is SOP for woodworking machine manufcaturers (importers) not to do so.

From a repair perspective I think a large appliance seems to be a better analogy. If I buy a new fridge and it doesn't work properly a tech comes to my home and repairs the fridge, the same with a large TV etc. The key is here we have paid for that whether we know it or not. The other brands of woodworking machines that I own seem to work differently from Grizzly, when I have had an issue in the first week or 4 years later a tech comes to my shop and repairs the item assuming it is not something extremely simple, they have offered to do that in home but the extra time to schedule was not worth it to me. In these cases I had paid for that service, at least part of the higher price was the value added portion which extended me a longer warranty and in home repair. When deciding on a brand to purchase this should be one of the criteria which one considers.

Given the machine you get and the price you pay Grizzly is still a bargain and I own and have no qualms about buying other Grizzly machines BUT I take into consideration with each purchase that although great, Grizzly's customer service is at arms length, just like the purchase process. The one issue I do see is that Grizzly's prices are very attractive to beginning woodworkers who iif unaware of the situation could get in over their head quickly if they are presented with a machine that needs repair.