I want to build a shop

[Leigh Betsch]

I didn't build my shop, it came with the farm site. The ceilings are 8 ft with under the ceiling surface mounted lights and DC duct work. I would much rather have a higher ceiling or at least flush mounted lights and under ground duct work. I would think about how you want to run dust collection pipe. If you run it across the ceiling it will further constrict the height. If you can plan it along the walls, underground or above the ceiling it would be one less thing hanging down. I would also plan a closet to house the duct collector to reduce the noise. I use a 55 gallon drum under the cyclone which means the DC height gets to be almost 10 feet high. My shop is a 20x50x8 room built inside a 45 x 90 pole building so I was able to build a closet outside the main shop to house the DC and gain the added height I needed. There are many ways to skin the cat, you don't necessary need high ceilings but you want to think about how you want to install your lighting, DC and duct work up front. I ended up building my own retagular duct work to minimize the high constriction. Next time I would go through the work to install PVC pipe above the ceiling.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I have to say that 8' ceilings are not something to PLAN for. If you are building a new shop, you need to allow for a higher ceiling....trust me on this one. Sure you can get by with an 8' but why would you want to. You know we deal with long stock and being able to move it around without a problem is a very nice thing to have. The ceiling in my 16x20 is 7.5' and I hate it. In the new 16x25 addition I am planning, the ceiling goes from 10' to 9' so I can hang an air exchanger and a few other things without braining myself on any of them.

There's really no reason to plan for a short ceiling and those who have suggested higher are giving you good advice.

Next up....everyone likes input from others when doing something they don't do everyday. No one should be dogged for asking for a plan that someone else has come up with for inspiration. Not all of the members here are draftsmen and those same folks may not have time to play with the templates on the web like Grizzly has.

I am about to start designing my new addition so I have a few of the same questions. I hope we have more input as time goes by....I like to look at other shop layouts as well...gives me tons of ideas.

Chad has some really good ideas and yes you will need to check your local codes for details on how big/high you can go in your area. Doing everything to the city's specs is advised when building a shop. You certainly don't want to re-do any part of that process....doing it once is enough!

[Michael Gibbons]

Most of you know this but for those that don't.. measure a full sheet diagonally from long side to long side and it's almost 9 feet. so spinning it around on end in an 8 foot high shop, you might be banging the lights. Make the shop at least 10' high.

[George Bregar]

I have to say that 8' ceilings are not something to PLAN for. If you are building a new shop, you need to allow for a higher ceiling....trust me on this one. Sure you can get by with an 8' but why would you want to. You know we deal with long stock and being able to move it around without a problem is a very nice thing to have. The ceiling in my 16x20 is 7.5' and I hate it. In the new 16x25 addition I am planning, the ceiling goes from 10' to 9' so I can hang an air exchanger and a few other things without braining myself on any of them.

There's really no reason to plan for a short ceiling and those who have suggested higher are giving you good advice.

Next up....everyone likes input from others when doing something they don't do everyday. No one should be dogged for asking for a plan that someone else has come up with for inspiration. Not all of the members here are draftsmen and those same folks may not have time to play with the templates on the web like Grizzly has.

I am about to start designing my new addition so I have a few of the same questions. I hope we have more input as time goes by....I like to look at other shop layouts as well...gives me tons of ideas.

Chad has some really good ideas and yes you will need to check your local codes for details on how big/high you can go in your area. Doing everything to the city's specs is advised when building a shop. You certainly don't want to re-do any part of that process....doing it once is enough!

No one is "dogging him" for asking for plans "for inspiration" because he didn't do it. That is your invention. I'll say it again, he asked "any plans laying around they want to get rid of" suggesting the actual physical plans (i.e. drawings) to build a building. That is poor place to start. We have a lot of shop layout, design, and idea threads, and they're great. Just not what this guy asked for, and frankly, if you are going to build a 28x32 shop and sink the tens of thousands of dollars to do so, and you start with a building plan then you need to be a draftsman to go from there. Not sure if he is building it himself, or having it built. In either case you don't start with plans. My only point.

As far as the rest, I have stated a reason "why would you want to" have ceilings lower than 10'...cost. It costs more to build a shop with 10' ceilings than 8' ceilings. Costs more to heat it too. Costs more to light it too. And guess what, that may just be part of the equation especially to a guy that has "almost" convinced his wife to let him build (unless you are going to pay the difference.) They also are more of a need in small shops (like yours) because movement of material tends to require the vertical. Not so much in a more expansive shop. My shop is 24x36, and I can easily accommodate even full sheet goods on a cart between machines. Required planning though. I would much rather have a larger footprint with 8' ceilings than a smaller one with 10' ceilings. Not that I had a choice, but would I like to have higher ceilings?...yes. Are they in any way a necessity for a very nice, functional shop?...as thousands of basement and garage converted shop users an attest...no. That said, ceiling height is just one of many issues that go into designing a shop building. All of that does not start with "plans"..it ends with "plans".

[Kelly C. Hanna]

No one is "dogging him" for asking for plans "for inspiration" because he didn't do it. That is your invention. I'll say it again, he asked "any plans laying around they want to get rid of" suggesting the actual physical plans (i.e. drawings) to build a building. That is poor place to start. We have a lot of shop layout, design, and idea threads, and they're great. Just not what this guy asked for, and frankly, if you are going to build a 28x32 shop and sink the tens of thousands of dollars to do so, and you start with a building plan then you need to be a draftsman to go from there. Not sure if he is building it himself, or having it built. In either case you don't start with plans. My only point.

As far as the rest, I have stated a reason "why would you want to" have ceilings lower than 10'...cost. It costs more to build a shop with 10' ceilings than 8' ceilings. Costs more to heat it too. Costs more to light it too. And guess what, that may just be part of the equation especially to a guy that has "almost" convinced his wife to let him build (unless you are going to pay the difference.) They also are more of a need in small shops (like yours) because movement of material tends to require the vertical. Not so much in a more expansive shop. My shop is 24x36, and I can easily accommodate even full sheet goods on a cart between machines. Required planning though. I would much rather have a larger footprint with 8' ceilings than a smaller one with 10' ceilings. Not that I had a choice, but would I like to have higher ceilings?...yes. Are they in any way a necessity for a very nice, functional shop?...as thousands of basement and garage converted shop users an attest...no. That said, ceiling height is just one of many issues that go into designing a shop building. All of that does not start with "plans"..it ends with "plans".

Didn't invent a thing and I have to say I completely disagree with you on just about every point except that it will cost a bit more to heat.

Here's what you posted and not a bit of it was any help to him. I underlined the contradiction to what you just posted.

"I'm not sure of the reason for this thread? To the OP, if you simply want building plans, which it seems to me, it's a pretty silly place to start. Pretty easy to "plan" a stick framed 28x32 shop. You really wouldn't need a plan at all. Neither would a builder. Of course the devil is in the details, and all those are specific to your individual wants, needs, site, location, and budget. The odds that someone's "plan" would meet all your criteria is...like winning Powerball."

I doubt very seriously he wanted a plan to give to a builder....I read it to mean he wanted to see what others had planned to give him an idea where to start.

So you don't call that dogging.....that's cool, we're all different. I called it the way I saw it. If you were really trying to help out with that post I stand corrected, but I can't see it.

[Don Bullock]

I'm not sure of the reason for this thread? To the OP, if you simply want building plans, which it seems to me, it's a pretty silly place to start. Pretty easy to "plan" a stick framed 28x32 shop. You really wouldn't need a plan at all. Neither would a builder. Of course the devil is in the details, and all those are specific to your individual wants, needs, site, location, and budget. The odds that someone's "plan" would meet all your criteria is...like winning Powerball.

Gotta run. Need to bulldoze my 24x36 shop with 8' ceilings

George, I don't know where you live, but in some places plans are required for building permits. Where I live anything above 120 sq. ft. must have a permit. To get a permit they require full plans including engineering specifications for the structure's loads and for the fire sprinkler system. If grading is required there is further design work that has to be done by a "qualified" engineer. All of that adds cost to the construction. Perhaps the OP wants to bypass some of those costs by going with a plan that already meets all or some of those requirements.

Before I had my shop/garage built I looked at a lot of plans. They helped me to tweak the design I finally ended up with. Even though my building was built by Tuff Shed and my site was rather unique I was able to incorporate many of the ideas that I gleaned from what others had done. I think the OP is starting in the right place.

[George Bregar]

George, I don't know where you live, but in some places plans are required for building permits. Where I live anything above 120 sq. ft. must have a permit. To get a permit they require full plans including engineering specifications for the structure's loads and for the fire sprinkler system. If grading is required there is further design work that has to be done by a "qualified" engineer. All of that adds cost to the construction. Perhaps the OP wants to bypass some of those costs by going with a plan that already meets all or some of those requirements.

Before I had my shop/garage built I looked at a lot of plans. They helped me to tweak the design I finally ended up with. Even though my building was built by Tuff Shed and my site was rather unique I was able to incorporate many of the ideas that I gleaned from what others had done. I think the OP is starting in the right place.

Well, finally some recognizes like me that he was asking for "plans" the noun, and not "plans"
the verb! What his intent was I can't say..unlike some I don't read minds so am forced to actually just go by what's written. That said, I would disagree. If using a builder, I can't see any way starting with plans would save you money. Every builder has basic plans for a 28x32 building. Once they put pencil to paper they are going to charge. And you will pay. You may even be charged more if you use others...because they will have to verify the starting point and determine costs...something they already have done for "their plans". As far as "engineering sign off", you are not going to get that if you borrow someone else's plans. The creator of those plans do not provide that beyond it's initial use, nor will a builder use them, because they can't pass the buck on liability.

I guess I can see a DIY using plans that meet their needs...but I will continue to say that the odds of getting those plans are gonna be slim, and determining those needs would never start with plans.

Just out of curiosity, how much did you save starting with others plans from Tuff-Shead? And what design changes did you make based on seeing those plans?

[Glen Butler]

I disagree with everything George has said, including more heating costs. Heat rises. Most heat loss is through the ceiling. So spreading the shop out to allow for isle ways to roll around sheets goods on carts only gives you more horizontal ceiling surface for heat to escape. Even given the same footage heating a 10' ceiling vs an 8' ceiling is negligable. Don't forget to add the chiropractor bill for having 8 ft. ceilings and trying to maneuver sheet goods off the cart and tilting them into position on the table saw while avoiding knocking holes in the ceiling or breaking light fixtures . . . and don't forget to add the cost of the broken light fixtures.

Speaking of light -- light is also able to travel through an additional 2' of atmosphere without losing many lumins, so lighting costs are the same.

The only real cost difference is your building materials themselves. That is a one time cost that you will never regret once it is built. I would take a 20x30 shop with 12' ceilings over Georges 864 sq. ft. shop with 8' ceilings anyday. But I would definitely take a shop with 8' ceilings over no shop. I know there are a lot of basement workers out there. May God have mercy on your backs.

You should first check with your local jurisdiciton for restrictions and requirements for a structure that size. Even in strict jurisdictions coming up with plans for a simple non-living structure is not that difficult. You would do well to make yourself some scale drawings and layout tool and material locations. Check your local codes to see if they require stamped engineered plans. As it is non-living most will accept beam loads as speced on the manufacturers tables. Truss companies provide their own specs. Good luck.

[George Bregar]

I disagree with everything George has said, including more heating costs. Heat rises. Most heat loss is through the ceiling. So spreading the shop out to allow for isle ways to roll around sheets goods on carts only gives you more horizontal ceiling surface for heat to escape.

While that is true my argument is that only that higher ceilings increase heating costs.

Even given the same footage heating a 10' ceiling vs an 8' ceiling is negligable.

Again, you are heating 25% more volume. Not sure what negligible is to you. But since I did make this argument, it seems that you are confused, because you are actually agreeing with me.

Don't forget to add the chiropractor bill for having 8 ft. ceilings and trying to maneuver sheet goods off the cart and tilting them into position on the table saw while avoiding knocking holes in the ceiling or breaking light fixtures . . . and don't forget to add the cost of the broken light fixtures.

I'll add the same costs my buddy with 7 1/2' ceilings has incurred in nine years. Let's see if I add zero to...this is what they call a strawman. But I can play too. Add your costs for chiropractors, and wall repair, and machine repair from banging into crap while you try to maneuver sheet goods and mobile stuff through the narrow spaces in your itty bitty shop with your high ceilings. Add the costs of surgery when you break a hip falling off the ladder changing a lightbulb. Fact is that many woodworkers don't use sheet goods that often and many don't cut it on the table saw. I have the room and don't, I cut it roughly to size and bring it to the table saw. Has nothing to do with ceiling height or lack thereof.

The only real cost difference is your building materials themselves. That is a one time cost that you will never regret once it is built. I would take a 20x30 shop with 12' ceilings over Georges 864 sq. ft. shop with 8' ceilings anyday.

So I'm confused...you are agreeing with me again? As for the rest Glen, you know that many people have a budget. That would be the amount that they can actually spend on something. And the fact that you would prefer something doesn't really make it a universal truth. Let me prove it to you...I wouldn't. I'll take footprint everyday unless I can have both. I've said high ceiling are better...and only have stated reasons why you would forego them. Of which two you have agreed. COST. This position that I'm wrong because even though I'm right you think it's worth it anyway, with a side order of strawman, is just...well...nevermind.

[Chad Easterling]

A couple of things I forgot to mention....

1) There is no shame in dedicated circuits. I had each wall wired separately for the general plugs with dedicated circuits for items like my compressor, welder and air cleaner. I could run every piece of equipment in my shop at the same time and see little to no impact on the equipment. I never had to wait for the DC to spin up and then turn on a saw. Everything had enough power.

2) I ran lights down the center, along both sides and across the back of my shop. Each "set" of lights was wired on a different switch. I could vary the light based on where I was working and what I needed to see. That was nice because I didn't always need 40 million lumens....

3) Add plugs in the ceiling. I can't count how many times I used a drop cord to power a piece of portable equipment.

I guess this adds up to about 0.04 now....

[David Prince]

I have 9' 6" ceilings in my garage and 12' ceilings in my shop. I wouldn't want it any lower than that!

Flipping sheets of plywood in a shop or long pieces of trim could easily smack the ceiling or lights if you have a lower ceiling. It is also easier to store or temporarily stand up longer boards in a corner if needed.

[Greg Portland]

Some things that I love about my shop:

- Concrete slab with radiant heat system. No worries about gases from heaters, you can vent the DC outside into an external closet, spray finishing is fine (no flame source), etc., etc.
- 10'+ ceilings. Definitely worth it IMO. Yes, you can still hit things with boards. However, you can easily flip or stack plywood on end without problems.
- Tons of lighting & white shop surfaces. Lots of light, including task lighting + light surfaces to reflect everything will really help your eyes out.
- Surface mount electric with a big service panel. You WILL want to move your outlets and equipment around after you've worked in the new space for a bit. I went with Wiremold 4000 series raceway, the 3000 series could have also worked depending on the required capacity (amps and amount of wire). The 4000 easily held 4 30A circuits and 6 20A circuits. Splurge for the spools of individual stranded wire here, it makes it MUCH easier to pull vs Romex or wire by the foot. If you buy by the spool, it may make sense to get all 10g (i.e. wire the 20A with 10g but still use 20A breakers and outlets). Otherwise you'll need to get spools of 12g which will add to the cost (of course with a large shop you may need that much wire).
- Nordfab dust collection piping. I have three 6" drops coming down from the ceiling and I hook them up to the equipment that I'm currently using (3 work zones, equipment is swapped from the wall / storage area to each zone based on the workflow). This is cheaper than running a drop to every piece of equipment. It takes very little time to assemble or change the overall DC design. Adding new drops (even in the middle of a run) is very simple.

[Jack Wilson]

Hey Tony,

Gosh I hope you don't feel like you can't ask any questions here, isn't that the point. Sounded like you were getting scolded there for a while, which'll shut you right down, don't do that.

Any way, all those guys saying go with a 10' ceiling, yeah, do it if you can. I expanded my 8x12 shed with 6'-6" ceilings to a HUGE 16x27 with 8' to low ceilings. It was supposed to double as a shop but now that its done it's really way to small and the ceilings are too short as well. I store tools, lawn and garden stuff, all my mechanics stuff to work on our vehicles, and no room to move. Keep in mind that I was limited on space, but I sure wish it was larger AND taller. It looked great till it started to fill up, which oddly enough didn't take to long.

[Glen Butler]

[QUOTE=George Bregar;1323443]
Again, you are heating 25% more volume. Not sure what negligible is to you. But since I did make this argument, it seems that you are confused, because you are actually agreeing with me.

Are you saying that adds 25% to the heating bill?

[Glen Butler]

Again, you are heating 25% more volume. Not sure what negligible is to you. But since I did make this argument, it seems that you are confused, because you are actually agreeing with me.

Are you saying that it adds 25% in heating costs then?

By negligible I mean a couple bucks, if you can't afford that you shouldn't be doing this for a hobby. If this is more than a hobby then you want more than 8' ceilings. You should be concerned with the footprint of a building for heating costs more than the volume, because as I said, most heat loss is throught the ceiling.

I'll add the same costs my buddy with 7 1/2' ceilings has incurred in nine years. Let's see if I add zero to...this is what they call a strawman. But I can play too. Add your costs for chiropractors, and wall repair, and machine repair from banging into crap while you try to maneuver sheet goods and mobile stuff through the narrow spaces in your itty bitty shop with your high ceilings. Add the costs of surgery when you break a hip falling off the ladder changing a lightbulb. Fact is that many woodworkers don't use sheet goods that often and many don't cut it on the table saw. I have the room and don't, I cut it roughly to size and bring it to the table saw. Has nothing to do with ceiling height or lack thereof. Oh really? You like cutting all your stuff twice for the fun of it? It has nothing to do with the fact that you can't tilt an 8' sheet under and 8' ceiling?

So I'm confused...you are agreeing with me again? No I'm not, you included the cost of heating taller ceilings ($2.00) and additional lighting costs ($0.00) into the equation. As for the rest Glen, you know that many people have a budget. That would be the amount that they can actually spend on something. And the fact that you would prefer something doesn't really make it a universal truth. Let me prove it to you...I wouldn't. I'll take footprint everyday unless I can have both. I've said high ceiling are better...and only have stated reasons why you would forego them. Of which two you have agreed. COST. This position that I'm wrong because even though I'm right you think it's worth it anyway, with a side order of strawman, is just...well...nevermind.

Bottom line is you must just be having a bad week because you typically don't act like this and you were quite condescending to the OP and could have approached your first post with a little more compassion as others will agree.