Incra Router System – User comments?

[Michael Drew]

A few years ago I built Norm’s router table and mounted a 3.25 hp Hitachi plunge router under it. It’s been a great table, but after installing an Incra TS on my table saw last week, then watching the DVD that came with the Incra, I’m pining for the Incra Wonder Fence router table set up. I have been using an older Porter Cable 24” dovetail jig. While I’m certain that folks with more patience than I, and more skill using the PC than I can do wonderful things with it, I find it aggravating and very time consuming to set it up for dovetails. So much so, I find myself avoiding dovetails and using other joinery methods. After watching the DVD and seeing how simple set up and cutting some very cool looking dovetails with the Incra, plus the precision the T-fence offers, I think I’ve convinced myself I really need this set up…….

So now I’m almost ready to click the buy button on the Wonder fence set up and Incra Lift. I’m pretty sure I can build a new top and mount it to Norm’s base and modify it to incorporate the dust collection into the top and Wonder fence.

Before I make this move, I figured it would be a good idea to get some user feedback first.

Does anyone using this system have any regrets or words of wisdom?

[Leigh Betsch]

I have the Wonder Fence on my table. I would get the shorter version if I did it again. I can't remember but I think mine is 27" long and I get a little flex out at the end that I don't think you would get with the shorter (17"?) version. I will probably just remount my positioner closer to the router to sturdy it up but it is a bit of a waste of money to buy the long one and then only use part of the stroke.
Dust collection works good.
The split fence works but the adjustment could be easier, it's ok but you gotta get used to which screws to loosen to make the adjustments.
The miter slide could also be better but I think there are some relatively easy mods that will improve it.
The incremental movements and the accuracy is great and worth the small issues.

[Peter Rivlin]

Why not put an extension on your table saw with a router lift in it? I did this with my TS and Incra fence and then added the Wonder fence which attaches to the face of the TS fence. I have a woodpeck PRL for a lift and get accuracy within a few thousandths up/down and side to side.

PR

[Michael Drew]

Why not put an extension on your table saw with a router lift in it? I did this with my TS and Incra fence and then added the Wonder fence which attaches to the face of the TS fence. I have a woodpeck PRL for a lift and get accuracy within a few thousandths up/down and side to side.

PR

I thought about doing just that. I could then peddle my stand alone router table and get some floor space back too. But after thinking about if for a while, I’d just prefer to keep the router table. For one, I keep all my bits and ‘stuff’ in the router table. I also like to be able to stand on either side or in front of the router table. Then there is also the benefit of being able to use the TS, then just walk over to the table and do what I need to do there.

I have the Wonder Fence on my table. I would get the shorter version if I did it again. I can't remember but I think mine is 27" long and I get a little flex out at the end that I don't think you would get with the shorter (17"?) version. I will probably just remount my positioner closer to the router to sturdy it up but it is a bit of a waste of money to buy the long one and then only use part of the stroke.

Dust collection works good.
The split fence works but the adjustment could be easier, it's ok but you gotta get used to which screws to loosen to make the adjustments.
The miter slide could also be better but I think there are some relatively easy mods that will improve it.
The incremental movements and the accuracy is great and worth the small issues.

Thanks for that input. Can you tell me if cutting dovetails is as painless as Incra would like us to believe? The one aspect I do not like, and find hard to believe is that you actually have to re-position the fence to make additional cuts in the same location. I’m having trouble believing that this system is that repeatable.

[Ray Newman]

Like all of us, over the years I've seen the INCRA show exhibits and the exhibitors make it all looks so easy doing those "contrasting-wood-triple-dovetail-with box joint-whatever-joints".

And once again, I considered buying an INCRA this fall. At the time, I really started to get serious about the purchase as I priced out the various set ups, any additional/needed bits, etc. Then I decided that before I bought one, I should "invest" US $25.00 or so to purchase the instructional video.

I watched the video several times and apparently the repeatability is there. I never heard INCRA users say that it wasn't.

But the fact that you constantly need to reposition the work is what turned me off. Seems like a great deal of moving the working to make the cuts and I could see that it might be possible to misread the scale and make a cut in the wrong location. In the past I talked to INCRA owners who said that after the "novelty" wore off, the constant moving of the fence/jig was just too tiring and time consuming and they needed to really watch the scale for the correct location.

INCRA, like all dovetail/box joint & postioning machines/jigs has its pluses and minuses and a learning curve. I think a potential purchaser really needs to consider the type of work he/she does and wants to do and will it best fit the bill?....

[Leigh Betsch]

Can you tell me if cutting dovetails is as painless as Incra would like us to believe? The one aspect I do not like, and find hard to believe is that you actually have to re-position the fence to make additional cuts in the same location. I’m having trouble believing that this system is that repeatable.

Nothing works quite as well as the sales literture would have you believe. The dovetails come out very nice but it is a bit complicated, but not too bad and once you learn the set up technique it's not bad at all. Repositioning the fence is just fine, great accuracy. I would do some searching on how to modify the right angle slide though. The nylon screws that you use to snug it to the fence just don't work welll for me. The Incra customer support guy told me that you need to push the right angle attachment along the fence just like a coping sled and not rely on the nylon screws to hold it to the fence. I also seem to rock it while pushing it. I think some have installed longer UMHW plastic guides that improve this. I just checked, mine is the LS Positioner Super System, which includes the Wonder Fence, 28 inch. But I would by the 17" next time.

[Mike Sandman]

For 10+ years I've been using the Incra TS fence and I bought the Incra extension and an Incra router fence to attach to the TS fence so I could swap the TS fence & gauage around to use the router extenstion table.

The TS fence is great -- amazingly repeatable and very solid. It's a bit of a pain to shift the fence from the right side of the TS over to the left, and if you went with a separate rounter table and a second Incra gauge to move the Wonder Fence you'd have great accuracy and repeatability plus covenience.

I've made dovetails and raised panels with a PC 890 router mounted beneath the Incra TS extension, and the gauge is equally solid and accurate. For dovetails I have to dig out the manual every time and follow the instructions to the letter, or I'll screw it up. If you try to apply logic rather than reading the dovetail instructions you'll get very frustrated. For raised panels, I made my own instruction manual by taking a few photos of the setup.

If you buy the router gear from Incra, Just remember where you put the manual for dovetails and you'll be fine -- not nearly as quick as the DVD, but accurate and easy just the same.

[Michael Drew]

Thank you both.

I pretty much figured that there was no way cutting dovetails would be as simple as in the instructional DVD. While it does look to be something that can be easily messed up, I can mess them up with relative ease using my PC dovetail jig. I always forget to flip a board the right way…. When I do use it, I usually end up with a pile of rejected boards and sawdust that has more mass than the keepers.

If the Incra is in fact repeatable for making cuts (which Mike indicated it was), I think I would prefer cutting DT’s with the Incra over my PC jig.

So for you guys that have used these for a while, what dimensions would you recommend for the table top that I will need to make?

Any happy Christmas Eve day to everyone!

[Jacob Mac]

My experience is that the Incra is pretty fussy to setup, but after you get it dialed in, you can make DTs without much problem. The thing is though, you have to dial it in everytime you use it. I just don't like doing it that much. In fact, I have been contemplating selling my Incra fence for some time.

My guess is that you could buy a DT saw, grind some cheap chisels a little so you can clean up the sockets, and cut them by hand. I went that way, and if I can do it, anyone can. And it does not take a long time to cut them either. I am not a neander by any strech, but cutting dts by hand is viable.

If you want a jig, I like the Leigh superjig a lot more than my Incra fence. My brother has it, and I think it is a better approach. YMMV.

[Peter Kuhlman]

I own lots of Incra and Woodpecker products. I really like the router system - but - for dovetails it is kind of a pain. If your needs are for short boards for box making, it works quite well. If you are needing to dovetail long boards, you are doing this vertically and it becomes quite unstable and results in poor fitting dovetails. You never see this demoed with drawer length or longer boards for a reason! Others may have different viewpoints or results.

[Alan Schaffter]

The INCRA is repeatable and accurate. My first three attempts:



Like anything jig it won't make the joint for you, you must know what you are doing and do it with care. You also need to look at it from the point you are buying a precision fence system for your router table for a whole host of functions one of those being cutting dovetails and sliding dovetails. A dovetail jig can only be used to cut dovetails.

[Gene DiNardo]

I mounted it on a piece of mdf and clamped it to my tablesaw.
That way, I can remove it if it's in the way.
I havn't had to remove it yet (several months).
I too would go with the shorter lenth (17").

[Michael Drew]

My experience is that the Incra is pretty fussy to setup, but after you get it dialed in, you can make DTs without much problem. The thing is though, you have to dial it in everytime you use it. I just don't like doing it that much. In fact, I have been contemplating selling my Incra fence for some time.

My guess is that you could buy a DT saw, grind some cheap chisels a little so you can clean up the sockets, and cut them by hand. I went that way, and if I can do it, anyone can. And it does not take a long time to cut them either. I am not a neander by any strech, but cutting dts by hand is viable.

If you want a jig, I like the Leigh superjig a lot more than my Incra fence. My brother has it, and I think it is a better approach. YMMV.

Well I have to do the same thing with my PC Omnijig, and to call it agrivating would only be partially accurate. It has nearly took flight across my shop in a fit of anger more than once. However, after I do finally get it set up correctly, the joints fit nicely. I’ve cut DT’s by hand before, which is why I ended up buying the Omnijig. It was not a pleasurable experience for me. I woodwork for fun, and cutting DT’s by hand just isn’t fun for me.

[FONT=Verdana]

Peter Kuhlman;1291936]I own lots of Incra and Woodpecker products. I really like the router system - but - for dovetails it is kind of a pain. If your needs are for short boards for box making, it works quite well. If you are needing to dovetail long boards, you are doing this vertically and it becomes quite unstable and results in poor fitting dovetails. You never see this demoed with drawer length or longer boards for a reason! Others may have different viewpoints or results.

I was wondering about that…….. Thanks for your comments. I don’t make little boxes. The bulk of things I make is Arts / Crafts stile furniture. DT’s are primarily for cabinet drawers.

The INCRA is repeatable and accurate. Like anything jig it won't make the joint for you, you must know what you are doing and do it with care. You also need to look at it from the point you are buying a precision fence system for your router table for a whole host of functions one of those being cutting dovetails and sliding dovetails. A dovetail jig can only be used to cut dovetails.

Nice looking boxes! I find your comments akin to something I’d say. My motto is “pay attention to detail”. It was beat into my head in bootcamp twenty some years ago and never left……….

[Narayan Nayar]

I've got an Incra system and have had it for four years. It's a TS-LS 32, and I have the router installed in a tablesaw extension cabinet.

For the tablesaw, I love it. And I like it too on the router, but for different reasons.

The only time I use it for dovetail or box joints is if I'm mass-making pieces. So when I was building out my shop and needed to make lots of drawers, I used the Incra for the dovetails. Took about 10 min total to setup and I could just bang the joints out after that, one after another, almost without thinking about it. The factors which require the system to be setup are the width and thickness of the boards.

But I don't use it for boxes or anything that's a one-off (or a two or three off, for that matter). It's easier for me to handcut those joints now, and to my eye, they look nicer.

To sum up, it's a great production system if you're making a lot of the same thing. I wouldn't call it a pain to set up--it's actually very easy. Just cumbersome.

The dust collection on the wonderfence is very nice though, and I use that even when I'm not doing joinery.

[Michael Drew]

I was going to order the super system and had an idea to run by you guys. It has been suggested to go with the 17” LS verses the 25” because it is more stable.

I was thinking the extra length might come in handy. Not real sure when or why, but I’d hate to wish for more and not have it. So I was just pondered the idea of mounting the positioner on a board that would have some T-bolts through it. I’d install some T-miters in the table top that I need to build. This would enable me to secure the positioner closer to the fence and move it further away if I needed the extra length. What do you think?