For Sale CHEAP! Epilog Legend 36 EXT

[Kevin Groenke]

Deep sympathies on the insurance claim. A good reminder to read all the fine print.

I know that Iowa State Design School lost a Trotec to fire back in December.

We had a trash can fire last month (ignition source unknown - 3 hours after we closed) would have been catastrophic w/o sprinklers. As it was it was inches of h2o to clean up, fortunately much of the gear and equipment is on bases and skids.

FIRE BAD!!

[James Stokes]

Insurance companies are such a rip off, They will do anything they can to keep from paying a claim.

One thing I do if cutting something real flammable is pull the front off of my laser and put a fan in front and really get some air blowing through. On my large laser I have a two inch suction hose hooked up to the lens and always use an auxiliary fan blowing across the material. Doing it like that I very seldom use the air assist.

[Nancy Laird]

Yes, it does... illegally, but you're running a business. The fact that you have not established a DBA means you're most likely not paying business taxes, either. The state/federal government does not look kindly on this.

Just because you're laying low does not mean you're not a business.



You're not officially recognized as a business by the state, but as I said above, if you accepted money, the state considers your activity business-like and what's their piece of the pie. Same consequences.



States do not recognize "hobby" as a status... if you accept money for products and/or services, you're a business, and they want to regulate/tax it.

Dan, unless you are either an attorney or a tax specialist working for the state(s), you should be careful about your blanket statements. You don't and can't know what happens in any other state but your own, and your statement "Yes, it does... illegally, but you're running a business" is a legal statement and you have given legal advice---and you have just committed a felony of practicing law without a license which, in most states, will get you a heavy fine and perhaps incarceration.

On the insurance question, our laser shop, with its two lasers and three computers and other equipment adding up to about $50K, and hubby's wood workshop with its $50K or more worth of tools and equipment, were not covered under our homeowner's insurance, as we found out when I tried to add a rider to the HO policy. We now carry a business policy through an arm of our HO carrier, and it's costing us about $1800 a year and covers everything. It even has a liability provision in case someone comes over to visit and gets hurt in the shop. It's worth the peace of mind that we have.

As for fire, the only thing I've ever cut that has actually caught on fire in the machine is paper-backed wood veneer, and it was set to cut too slowly. The PSA veneer is about the slowest thing we cut, at about .4, and I've never even had a flame from that. I can't imagine what you were cutting that would have caught fire and burned that quickly.

And....all the more reason to have a potty room VERY nearby.

Dean, I do hope that your insurance company takes a second look at your coverage.

[Nancy Laird]

I know.
And how many times have I read that on here and how many of these snowflakes have I cut before?
Same material same setting, same everything, only thiis time I left for a few short minutes.
Never a problem while I am sitting here. But that is exactly why you stay here, because then it will be uneventful.
Still kicking myself

Dean, in re-reading this post, I have come to the conclusion that something else happened rather than your material bursting into flame--unless it WAS a different type of acrylic than what you have cut before. Had you ordered new acrylic in the interval since the last time you cut and might have gotten a different type or from a different company?

Something happened out of the ordinary, either your machine had some sort of glitch that caused it, or the acrylic you were using was different than previous times.

[Dan Hintz]

Dan, unless you are either an attorney or a tax specialist working for the state(s), you should be careful about your blanket statements. You don't and can't know what happens in any other state but your own...

Fair enough. All locales I've lived in (unfortunately too many for my taste, time to stop moving) required you to at least have a license of one form or another if you wished to sell manufactured items of any kind or items purchased with the express purpose of resale (notice this excludes resale of items purchased for personal use, ala eBay, Craig's list, etc.). You may not end up paying any taxes at the end of the year if you're taking a loss, but they always wanted acknowledgement you existed. People fly under the radar all of the time, but it eventually bites them in the rear.

The point I was trying to make (and I clarified earlier that my statements were more about paying taxes on sales rather than the business licenses, per se, though I'm not going to reread the entire thread just to verify this) is taxes must be paid on all non-personal sales, regardless of dollar amount per year or even if you've taken a loss. Those taxes are supposed to be paid on your year-end local, state, and federal taxes, but somehow people continue to mistakenly believe if they sell on eBay, Craig's list, etc. or they paid taxes on it when they originally purchased the items years ago, they don't need to do so again.

...and your statement "Yes, it does... illegally, but you're running a business" is a legal statement and you have given legal advice---and you have just committed a felony of practicing law without a license which, in most states, will get you a heavy fine and perhaps incarceration.

I guess you fail to see the irony in this statement as you're telling me what's legal/illegal without you yourself being a lawyer? I'm posting on a forum centered on use of manufacturing systems, I have accepted no money for my "advice", nor have I hung a shingle out listing myself as an attorney at law. My "advice" is worth what you paid for it. Committing a felony for offering what would legally be construed as an opinion? Any other day I'd let that slide, but I'm tired from an early morning July 4th parade, so I'll offer yet another opinion... you should consider getting over it.

[Nancy Laird]

"you're telling me what's legal/illegal without you yourself being a lawyer? "

No, I'm telling you what's legal/illegal, as I am and have been a highly trained and educated paralegal for over 27 years.

[Robert Walters]

Dean,

My condolences, through your loss *I* have certainly learned my lesson to NEVER EVER walk away while the laser is in operation.


While it may not have helped your situation...
I find it weird that the "no regulation, cheap imported" laser engravers all have EMERGENCY STOP buttons (what I like to call 'The Big Red Button') and even key lock power switch, yet none of the US domestic well branded ones do.



All,

For those that may not be aware, here's a little Fire 101...
Note: I am NOT an expert, just sharing what I was taught. Do your research, I am human and can make mistakes.


In the United States, there are basically four types (Classes) of fires:
Class A: wood, paper, sawdust, etc (WHITE smoke).
Class B: Petroleum based, gas, fuel, plastics, rubber (BLACK smoke).
Class C: Electrical Fire, Once you've removed the electricity they usually revert back to one of the other classes of fires.
Class D: Explosives, Specialize Materials (like magnesium), Oxidizers, some household stove top grease fires.


In a laser engraver we can have Class A, B, and/or C fires based on the materials being used at the time.


NEVER fight a Class C fire without SAFELY removing *ALL* the sources of electricity, as any sparks could reignite the fire. Usually this is at the circuit breaker(s), or with a non-conductive pole (wooden broom handle?) to pull the plug(s) from the wall.

There are multiple types and sizes of fire extinguishers each having it's pros and cons depending on the scenario.

The most common are Dry chemical powder (Class A,B,C) that you can find at any hardware or discount stores. The chemical in these is corrosive and will typically damage whatever it comes into contact with unless you can quickly clean it up.


One alternative is CO2 Fire Extinguisher (Class B,C). One benefit of them is that they don't leave any residue to clean up other than water vapor that has condensed. You do have to be careful when operating a CO2 fire extinguisher as when they are being used can leak through openings and cause thermal burns on your skin, best to use with proper gloves.

Another very expensive alternative is Halon (which is being banned internationally) or it's substitutes like Haltron. These are typically used today for aircraft, marine, or specialized use.

If you are looking for something "more" than the hardware store fire extinguisher and don't want to hit a specialized company, check out http://westmarine.com/ or any other boating supply.

They even have a manual/automated fire suppression system:
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...classNum=10564


Be sure to inspect your fire extinguishers at least one a year.

PLEASE do your research BEFORE taking any actions. While I have the best of intentions, each persons environment/situation is different and may have different needs.


References:
http://www.fire-extinguisher101.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_triangle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_extinguisher

[Thad Nickoley]

Just a side note,

I lost my Epilog and the whole garage a couple of years ago. No, it wasnt the laser. The fire inspector traced it down to a cheap remote control battery that we were charging over night, like we had done 100 times before. Took out the whole garage plus about 100K in tools.

The fire inspector said that these cheap chargers catch fire all the time. I never leave any kind of charger plugged in over night any more.

[Tom Weiser]

Very sorry about your loss. I have done the very same thing for 12 years and have been lucky I haven't had any problems.
As for the insurance - what I found one time when I had a problem is if it's in a garage and used to maintain the house / property it's covered by home owners insurance. If it's not used to maintain the property like snowmobile / motorcycle it's not covered. I know there are what I'd call some gray areas when it comes to tools but I don't think you could convinence them that a Laser Engraver is used to maintain the house.

[TONG LI]

Dean, sorry to see that. I have a proposal for you. Since we are trying to see if our AP Lazer machine can be marketed in engraving business, I would love to offer you a discount to try our laser machine.

Sorry, I didn't know that the link is not allowed.

Tong

[Clarence Miller]

I hate to see this kind of thing happen. I have been thinking of purchasing an laser to go with my CNC router. When I have long winded programs I have a history of leaving it run while I do other jobs in the shop. Perhaps I need to reconsider. I carry business insurance on the shop despite it's negative cash flow (it is on it's own property ), although I have no doubt that since that warning is in the manual that insurance would hold me liable anyway.
Again Dude, you have my sympathy.

[Mark Ross]

Ahh...tis the season...

(to the tune 'The Christmas Song' ((you know...merry christmas to you...))

The laser has started a nice open fire
Lifting the lid, the flames hit my nose
Expletives being slung by crew
Someone go grab the firehose!

And everybody knows, some plastic and some balsa wood
helps to fuel the fire so bright
The boss, about to have a coronary
Will find it hard to sleep tonight.

The fire department is on the way
They'll overuse their axes come what may
And every worker will do their best to try
to come up with a way to deny

And so I'm offering this simple advice
To keep you from ending up wearing brown stain pants
Follow all recommendations and learn the meaning of
ROUTINE MAINTENANCE!

(end of song)

Yes boys and girls, our Epilog 36EXT caught fire today. Vacuum out the work area you say? Pshaw...wut fer?


Luckily, the fire extinguisher is right at the side of the unit and we keep people working closely nearby. Damage was limited to having to clean out all the dang powder from the extinguiher, order a new honeycomb grid and go to the proctologist who called the podiatrist and between them, they removed my foot from the hindquarters of the one who did not perform routine maintenance...grrr...

Let this be a reminder, never leave your unit unattended. In notime, it can go from some stinky smoke to a very expensive repair bill!