For Sale CHEAP! Epilog Legend 36 EXT

[Dave Johnson29]

since he did not have an "official business" tied to it, he could declare it as a "Hobby", and the laser is a tool for that hobby.

Hi Lee,

The point I was trying to make was declaring it at the time of writing the policy conditions and not when trying to make a claim. I actually have an S-Corporation, Business License, State Sales Tax number etc, but because it runs from my garage and I have no customers visiting, the insurance agent said they would regard it as a hobby business in the conditions.

[James & Zelma Litzmann]

Dean, all I can say is I am so very sorry this happened, we will keep you and your situtation in our thoughts & prayers. Hope something goods turns up.

[Mark Ross]

We cut all the nasty plastic stuff every normal business day, and the only way we can is to have someone somewhat close "just in case" but we have the air assist and crank that bad boy up...

If someone forgets to do that, we'll flame up on the next piece of acrylic mirror we cut.

As long as the air is blowing, it seems to blow out what might start up when we are cutting. Not sure if you had the air assist or not. It does make a slightly blurred edge where the laser is cutting the acrylic and we push the molten plastics down onto the grid, but it does a good job at flame suppresion...

On plastics...

I can take a piece of sappy pine and still light it up.

If nothing else, maybe you could part the unit out, if the control board is good? The power supply and the laser?

How old is your laser? How many watts? We are about due for a laser recharge again...let me know. Thanks. Again, sorry for your loss.

[Dean Strickland]

Thank you all for some good advice and your compassion.
I will make every effort with the insurance company, although it does not look very promising.
As far as rebuilding the machine, I have given that a thought.
I will have to take a good hard look at it tomorrow and see if anything looks salvageable. if not for a rebuild, maybe someone can use parts.
I have received a response from Epilog that also states maybe it can be saved, but doubtful after seeing the pictures.
But hey, it's worth a look since I still have so much into it and so much more to pay off.
And to try to answer some of the questions, yes, I was using air assist. I have used nitrogen as an air assist, (I work at Airgas so it is a nice cheap alternative I wanted to try) but it did not have any effect on the flare ups.
The exhaust moves too much air for Nitrogen or CO2 to have any effect on that.
It was clear acrylic, .125 thick using 30 speed 100 power and 5000 frequency.
Yes, it burns and burns quickly.
I will be back. It may take a couple of years to achieve, but I will be back.
If this post saves even one of you this heartache, then it has served some purpose and some good has come of it anyway.

[Richard Rumancik]

You said you did not have business insurance as you were in the early stages. Effectively you were doing it as a hobby (no sales, no bank account etc) with the idea of turning it into a business if it looked promising. I don't think it would be any different from someone starting a woodworking hobby in their garage and later turning it into a business. In the meantime, it would seem all the assets are personal assets and should normally be covered under a personal insurance policy.

There may be some kind of ombudsman or insurance association in your area to which you can make an appeal if you do not have success with the insurance company. I would keep the dialog open with the insurance company, just make them aware that you are looking at other options. Hopefully that may help bring them to the table to negotiate.

[Ryan O'Hara]

So after reading this thread it makes me want to design a "Smartguard" system for my epilog. Any thoughts on the smoke/fire detection that is used in the GCC system. Otherwise, I have a ton of uController and electronic design to put something like this together.

[Joe Pelonio]

Many of us have had small fires or scary flareups and already learned that lesson, just not nearly as hard a lesson is yours.

Regardless of whether one has a business, hobby, or just inherits or wins something, when a valuable item is acquired, there are so many things that can happen it's well worthy talking to your insurance agent about it as soon as possible.

I was paying about $300 a year for business insurance in a rented commercial space for years, then after 9/11 it went to over $1,400.
If your machine was a hobby tool, you might have gotten a far more reasonable price just to cover it for damage or theft, rather than the million $ liability that I had to carry to get installation jobs, but one way or another you would have found a way to get protection.

All that said, Dean, from what they told you, if that fire had destroyed your home, would that claim have been denied because the cause was a business machine? I find that hard to believe and agree with the others, you need to pursue this further and be persistent. There are many other hobby tools that could overheat and cause a fire that would be business tools to a contractor but hobby or even homeowner tools to others. There are many laser owners who are not using them for business but just for hobbies and crafts, so without proof of you conducting business I would
expect them to pay.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[Amanda Shughart]

Dean,

I hope that all is not lost, your insurance issues does sound a bit off.

Perhaps your misfortune will help prevent somebody else's.

Your photos were so dramatic that I decided to make them a teachable moment. This poster is now up next to both of our lasers:

Dean, with your permission I would also like to use the information in this thread (Other's Experiences) as well as you pictures to make informational posters and possibly a slide presentation or something for new users/trainees here(if we ever get any).

We're still new at it so I have not gotten to a point where I felt comfortable leaving the machine run, not to mention a trip to the bathroom here takes longer than normal being that they are halfway across the building. (Big industrial building) And now I will no longer feel akward when I have to sit there while its burning, especially with these pictures to validate my point.

[Dan Hintz]

I'm going to deny you permission, Amanda, as you never come back to share with us what you've accomplished lately ;-) I want to see more of those plates like you had at the last meet.

[Amanda Shughart]

Too late Dan, I've already started working on it. And as far as those plates go, thats the only one I've done and its gone and out the door. Have a few crappy pics but not sure where they are right at this moment. They are poor quality though. Maybe someday I will get the chance to play again.

Havn't touched our laser in 6 months. Its a very expensive shelf right now. Just re-engaged the search for a permanant home for it here and decent contribution to production.

[Allan Wright]

Yes, it does... illegally, but you're running a business. The fact that you have not established a DBA means you're most likely not paying business taxes, either. The state/federal government does not look kindly on this.

Just because you're laying low does not mean you're not a business.



You're not officially recognized as a business by the state, but as I said above, if you accepted money, the state considers your activity business-like and what's their piece of the pie. Same consequences.



States do not recognize "hobby" as a status... if you accept money for products and/or services, you're a business, and they want to regulate/tax it.

Sorry getting in on this late, but it certainly depends on the state. For example in New Hampshire, where I am, I'm required to declare the income on my federal return (which I do) but because my annual gross sales are less than $50,000 the state doesn't require me to file a return for state business profits tax (http://www.nh.gov/revenue/faq/dra_300.htm) So I'm legal operating my laser, and selling my products without declaring myself as a 'business'.

Weather or not my insurance company would agree with the state's definition of 'business' is something you'd need to discuss with your insurance company as well I would imagine.

[James Stokes]

I tried to get insurance on my 2 lasers. They wanted about $900 a month.

[Rich Fleming]

Those pics are the one thing that scares me the most running my little 40w laser at home "In the basement at that"

I do keep a fire extinguisher very close and I have it hooked up with a e-stop for the power to the inverter.. Plus I never leave it.. I'm just to paranoid

[Christian Weiss]

Dean,

Can you give me a call at 440-221-9973? I would like to offer to buy your machine as is. or email me at entrepreneuroh@aol.com


Thanks

Chris

[Dean Strickland]

I hereby permit all Creekers to use the above pics as warnings or safety advisories. But not for monetaty gain.
Donations to my cause are always welcome.
I lost out on the insurance coverage. It doesn't look like I will have another laser for at least 2 years, as that is what I still have left to pay on it.
I have a copy fo my insurance policy and the paragraph that they stand strong on states under coverage of personal property;
"$1200 on property used ot intended for use in any business while on the insured premisis. This does not include electronic data processing equipment or the recording or storage software used with such equipment."

Lesson learned and lesson being passed on.