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Thread: Drill Press Run-out.. New Chuck?

  1. #1
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    Drill Press Run-out.. New Chuck?

    I recently purchased an old Walker Turner Drill press. It was in really good shape for being ~65yrs old.

    However, its got an unacceptable amount of run-out at about 0.007" just under the chuck (an old Jacobs). At first, I thought the spindle might be bent. But then I removed the chuck and measured the run-out of the spindle taper.. it's is good at about 0.001".

    I've tried cleaning both the taper, and the spindle. No luck. I've also tried rotating the chuck (relative the spindle) with no improvement.

    So I'm thinking I need a new chuck. Its a shame really, because the original chuck LOOKs to be in great shape and opens/closes VERY smoothly. The teeth show little wear as well. I contacted Jacobs and they indicate they do not sell rebuild kits for this model anymore. So, I'm thinking I need a new chuck.

    I've looked around and prices on chucks go from absurdly cheap junk to astronomically-priced Albrecht chucks. Any recommendations out there for something that would give me reasonable run-out performance without breaking the bank? I'm primarily a woodworker. Oh and the spindle taper is a JT33.

    Thanks in advance...
    Andy

  2. #2
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    Walk fast and look worried.

  3. #3
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    If the bearings were bad, I'd expect the spindle run-out to be bad also, right? When I measure the run-out at the spindle its the tapered part which mates up with the chuck.

    The itself spindle rotates smoothly, and there no grinding feeling in the bearings. The bearings for this guy are pretty expensive, so I'm hoping that's not a route I need to take.

  4. #4
    TIR=.014 or .007"?
    If only .007 and you're drilling wood and not jig components, I wouldn't change a thing.
    Most likely the jaws of the chuck are boogered some and the rest of the press is ok. If the spindle has the squiggles and shakes then you have trouble.
    Have done macro/micro studies on drilling wood with brads & such. And the variable density of the rings and lands is such that the best of drills can miss their mark/centers x >.007" with the best Albrechts, bearings, spindles & so on.
    There are many variables here with respect to target, some technique, some in metrology, some in how the work is positioned , drilling tools, sharpness/grind quality, etc.etc. Moreover, there are spindle squareness issues, work table conditions and how well you can flatten & mill your stock. Plastic and metal require another perspective altogether.
    Bottomline: Don't spend any money unless you're making jigs & fixtures down to + or -.001 or .002" with plastic & metal.

  5. #5
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    Ditto to Pat's comments. If you need to hold tighter tolerences than that, you'll need to set up some tooling to make use of drill bushings which will overcome the runout. As a tooling designer, usually any holes requiring tighter tolerance, the guys in the tool room tell me they use the mill or fixtures with bushings...

    HTH
    Todd

  6. #6
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    Thanks Guys... I'm obviously NOT a machinist!

    When I'm measuring the run-out, I'm placing a dial indicator perpendicular to the spindle surface and rotating the spindle pulley by hand. The difference from max to min on the indicator is 0.007... so I assume this is TIR of 0.014", right?

    It's large enough that on longer bits (say 3-4 inches long), I can noticably see the drill bit point sweeping a small circle. Conversely there's no noticeable wobble of the spindle with the chuck removed (although I admit it might be tougher to detect given the size/shape of the spindle taper.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Sowers View Post
    The difference from max to min on the indicator is 0.007... so I assume this is TIR of 0.014", right?
    The deviation from center would be 1/2 the distance or .0035. That's as others have said is more than sufficient for woodworking. Also, it's not unusual for the chuck to not 100% properly seat correctly, especially with tapers and chucks that have been removed a couple of times. Here's a good article on tuning up a DP and adjusting runout.

    http://wiki.owwm.com/GetFile.aspx?Fi...ss_tune-up.pdf

    Mike
    Last edited by M Toupin; 09-24-2009 at 10:34 PM.

  8. #8
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    Andy, I bought a keyless chuck from grizzly and my drill press has run out whatso ever....griz chucks are reasonabley priced
    Dave

    IN GOD WE TRUST
    USN Retired

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Sowers View Post
    If the bearings were bad, I'd expect the spindle run-out to be bad also, right? When I measure the run-out at the spindle its the tapered part which mates up with the chuck.

    The itself spindle rotates smoothly, and there no grinding feeling in the bearings. The bearings for this guy are pretty expensive, so I'm hoping that's not a route I need to take.
    lots of jacobs chucks on the bay
    Last edited by dan grant; 09-24-2009 at 10:37 PM.

  10. #10
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    It is possible you need a new chuck.

    I also got a Walker-Turner drill press from my neighbor. It had really bad run-out, so much that you could see the bits wobbling. After much investigation, I found that one of the three jaws was worn . . . so every bit I put in there would wobble. I bought a keyless chuck from Woodcraft and boom, no more run-out!

    BTW, my chuck was also a JT33 . . . this is the one I replaced it with: http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/200...ess-Chuck.aspx

    -Brian
    Last edited by Brian D Anderson; 09-25-2009 at 8:59 AM.

  11. #11
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    Just buy a new Jacobs chuck. You don't need the expensive ball bearing model. .007" is way too out,especially when you are using small drills. TW machines haven't been made for over 40 years. The chuck must be worn,was over tightened,or something else. I've been the toolmaker at Williamsburg for many years.

    I do not advise buying ANY Chinese chucks. I always have to change them. If the Grizzly ran perfectly true,I'd add it up to a fluke.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by M Toupin View Post
    The deviation from center would be 1/2 the distance or .0035. That's as others have said is more than sufficient for woodworking. Also, it's not unusual for the chuck to not 100% properly seat correctly, especially with tapers and chucks that have been removed a couple of times. Here's a good article on tuning up a DP and adjusting runout.

    http://wiki.owwm.com/GetFile.aspx?Fi...ss_tune-up.pdf

    Mike
    Mike, You beat me to it. I was going to suggest Bob's smack it method first before he goes hog wild with looking for a new chuck.

    To the OP, read that article first and try hitting it with a mallet to see if it seats it on the taper. Also make sure the taper and the inside of the mating surface of the chuck are perfectly free of debris and any burrs.

  13. #13
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    Thanks,

    I had tried the "smack" method a few weeks ago before I was able to remove the chuck from the spindle. It didn't help, I haven't tried that again now that I have the chuck wedges and can get the chuck off easily. Certainly worth another try I suppose! I just didn't want to run the risk of bending the spindle in the process, so maybe I'm not being persuasive enough with the hammer. Given the run-out is the same as before, I'm a bit skeptical that it will fix it...

    I was sorta gearing up to buy a new Jacobs Chuck, but then I saw their run-out specs on the model which replaces mine, and it was stated as 0.004" so I was a bit worried that was on the high side.

    I'll tinker more with this guy this weekend...

    Thanks again all...
    Andy

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