Ceramic glaze test - it's NOT cermark!

[Dee Gallo]

Well, for all inquiring minds who want to know: I got some low fire ceramic overglaze and tested it on some coil stock. It just disappeared, obviously too low fire BUT! There was an interesting side effect.

At first I thought the glaze worked, since I saw some colors.... but then I realized it was only where there was no glaze painted. I did some further experiments and found that by manipulating the speed and power, I could get different colors (dark grey, blue, green, faded red).

It doesn't look great, but might be of some use to someone for a project. It might enhance an artsy photo or drawing. Take a look at the pix.

cheers, dee

[Steve Clarkson]

Are you saying that different speed/power combinations with the same glaze created completely different colors?

[Frank Corker]

Thats really a very interesting result that you have there. I think there has to be something available (outside of the the THERS and CERS) so this sort of experimentation is fantastic.

[Dee Gallo]

Are you saying that different speed/power combinations with the same glaze created completely different colors?

Yes and no - I did not put any glaze on the coil stock to create these colors. The coil stock I used is beige, but whatever the coating is on there was removed by the laser and created the different colors. Maybe when they coat the metal they use layers of varying stuff?

I'm going to try some more tests tomorrow and see how much control I have over the colors for real. These were just solid black rectangles.

Stay tuned!

cheers, dee

[Tim Wooldridge]

Sorry for making this my first post without an introduction. I have been doing laser engraving for 2.5 years now, and we have done quite a few pieces on porcelain and ceramic where we have used ceramic glaze as a substitute for expensive thermark. I have trial and error with several different resist materials. I get the best results with laser tape and ikonics laser resist. I will post some pictures of some finished pieces with detailed text and what not. The process is really easy, for putting, say, a green pine tree silhouette onto a beige porcelain tile.

We started out doing tile bullnosing in 2002, which is still our main business. We developed a glaze that retains its glassly, glossy nature while being able to fire it at 016, which is a temperate low enough not to break any type of ceramic and porcelain. Therefore, I have a greater advantage when it comes to knowledge of glazing, since I've been doing it for like 6 years. I'll try and help you guys out, as this is a far cheaper alternative to thermark, that can produce better results.

[Dee Gallo]

Sorry for making this my first post without an introduction. I have been doing laser engraving for 2.5 years now, and we have done quite a few pieces on porcelain and ceramic where we have used ceramic glaze as a substitute for expensive thermark. I have trial and error with several different resist materials. I get the best results with laser tape and ikonics laser resist. I will post some pictures of some finished pieces with detailed text and what not. The process is really easy, for putting, say, a green pine tree silhouette onto a beige porcelain tile.

We started out doing tile bullnosing in 2002, which is still our main business. We developed a glaze that retains its glassly, glossy nature while being able to fire it at 016, which is a temperate low enough not to break any type of ceramic and porcelain. Therefore, I have a greater advantage when it comes to knowledge of glazing, since I've been doing it for like 6 years. I'll try and help you guys out, as this is a far cheaper alternative to thermark, that can produce better results.

YES PLEASE! This is a great breakthrough for us. My experiments were on metal, but a tile would have been my next series. You've saved me!

Now, we need details: type of glaze, application procedure, document details, laser settings, the whole shebang.

So, very nice to meet you, Tim, I hope we hear a lot from you from now on. I look forward to seeing your work posted here. This is exciting!

thanks, dee ... did I already say ?

[Tim Wooldridge]

Hehe well I'd be lying if I said I hadn't lurked here for over a year before making an account let alone posting! I've been waiting to spill the beans on quite a few things, including the process I've discovered to permanently etch black - among several colors - onto travertine and marble. I have put a glossy, black guiness logo onto a beige creme piece of marble. I'll have photos up as soon as I get my camera from my house.

I was thinking that I could even provide the formula to make the special gloss that allows us to fire as such a low temperature. That's if I (or we) don't feel like being greedy and charging for it. We paid $300 a compressed gallon batch of the stuff for years before the guy went out of business and decided to share the recipe! Takes about $20 to make the gallon we were paying $300 for!

[Frank Corker]

Tim I am intrigued and I am certainly looking forward to seeing the photos! Bring it on.

[Dan Hintz]

Tim, I'm sure we'd all love to hear what you've found.



Dee, I would have suggested against metal being your test substrate, at least as a first shot. The Cermark uses clay in the mix to act as a heat absorber, allowing the glaze itself to get hot enough to bond with the metal. In your test case, there's no clay in the mix, so most of your heat was lost to the metal itself (or reflected). Although Tim has already beaten me to the punch, as it were, I think you would have significantly different results if you used a clay-based substrate (tile, etc.).

[Rodne Gold]

Hi all , check out this:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6238847.html
Seems in essence any compound you develop will be in conflict with the patent....

[Darren Null]

Wouldn't worry about it. Cermark are sure to be sued first.

When I first started looking into lasers; there was a chap who was experimenting with different types of glazes, but he dropped off the map. Got quite a few colours out of various glazes, as I recall. I always wondered if it was the same thing behind that mysterious $5k full-colour process.

I was thinking that I could even provide the formula to make the special gloss that allows us to fire as such a low temperature.

Definitely interested there. Permanent, you say?

[Rodne Gold]

I think that IS the cerdec/cermark/thermark patent??

[Darren Null]

You could be right. Mind you, you're probably breaking a clause in one of the list of patents just by plugging your laser in.

[John Noell]

Yep. Another link here mentions Cerdec in connection with that patent number. Patents can be funny animals. And the difference between a glaze for a ceramic and a Cermark "glaze" is ___??? A kiln used radiant energy (infrared radiation) to make the glaze stick to a ceramic item and a laser produces radiant energy (differing only in wavelength) to make the glaze stick. Many of the ingredients in the "glaze" are the same.

[Rodne Gold]

I think this whole patent thing is somewhat rediculous - there is a patent for marking denim with a laser...what next - we gonna get sued for digging a hole with a spade....
PS I have discovered another way of marking , if you take the bright anodised aluminium trophy plates we import from Italy and laser thru masking tape , with enough power the mark goes a nice shade of brown...