Waterlox on Ebony cabinet

[Brian Pac]

I came up with a great ebony recipe that turned out great on red oak:

Mixwax Ebony -- wiped on 2 coats
Behlen's Solar Lux - Jet Black -- sprayed on until uniform
General's Java Gel Stain - wiped on

It turned out great. My wife is giddy (#1 customer) it looks so nice.

Now the problem, I wanted to finish with Waterlox Original. Having not worked with Waterlox before, I tried an inside shelf to see how it would go. Well, not so good. I tried using a foam brush and the wiping it. It was streaky and ugly. Next I took some MS and 600 grit, tried to smooth it out to recoat. 2nd coat, really not any better.

What am I doing wrong? Can the Waterlox not go over the Gel Stain? What is the best way to apply the stuff.

Any insight would be appreciated.

[Neal Clayton]

was the stain dry? waterlox is thinned by the same thing the stain is, if the stain isn't dry it'll cut the waterlox.

also foam brushes don't work that well with it, it tends to bubble if you apply it with one. try a natural china bristle brush, the same type you'd use with an oil paint.

does the piece have doors? if so the waterlox will off-gas for a couple of weeks, at least, as it cures, so you'll have to leave it open to let it breathe.

[Brian Pac]

Yes, the stain was dry. I let dry for a week before applying the waterlox. I used the foam brush to get some on and then wiped in clean.

In principal, my formula should work, correct?

[Scott Holmes]

Brian,

Here's the directions from the Behlen stain web site...

APPLICATION:
Apply to BareWood. Behlen Solar-Lux can be applied by spray, brush or wiped on. Application should be consistent and wet to achieve uniform color. Stain should be applied with the grain and then wiped with a clean lint-free cloth. All Behlen Solar-Lux dyes can be intermixed to achieve a variety of cshades.

OVERCOATING:
Overcoat after one hour with solvent based finishes. Allow overnight drying prior to overcoating with Behlen water base finishes.


Did you folow the directions and wipe the excess stain from the wood? Note it says bare wood and wipe the stain with a clean cloth.

If not here's what is going on...

Your 1st coat of Minwax sealed the wood the 2nd coat of Minwax did very little. Then you applied another stain and left it alone, Right?
Then you applied a gel stain, which is able to be left on a bit thicker than the other stains you used... gel stains have a mush stronger binder than the other stains.

The gels stain was bonded to the Belhlens which had very little sticking power failure was inevitable.

Better process... dye the wood with a water or denatured alcohol mixed dye (DNA).
Then add you gel stain if needed. Dyes will get darker with additional coats, stain don't really do much after the 2nd coat and nil after the 3rd or 4th coat.

Dye doesn't seal the wood, stains do. India ink will make most woods ebony like.

[Brian Pac]

I did not apply the Behlen's to the bare wood. I did however overspray and wipe clean.

I guess the issue I face into, is what now? Is there something I can use as a final protective coat? How would I even start over?

[Bob Barkto]

In situations like this a sprayed on light coat of Zinsers Seal Coat or other dewaxed shellac is worth a try. As always Test First.

It will provide a good barrier for subsequent topcoats so the solvents won't penetrate the gel stain and cause problems.

I would spray a lacquer over that. It will provide the most cohesive finish in this situation. You can tint the first coat of lacquer to get some of the deeper amber that Waterlox has.
Other varnishes that are higher in solids would work ok too.

You could apply Waterlox but it is kind of a waste at this point since it isn't the best coating over other finishes and the color and grain depth won't be generated as it will not penetrate into the wood anymore.


Waterlox has a lot of fairly strong solvents in it and I suspect it was softening and picking up pigment from the rather thick gel stain.

Solar Lux is an oil based dye. It doesn't leave a film.
Gel stains are heavy in pigment and binder, but are rather soft if applied heavily over other coatings. If you didn't leave too much on the surface shellac will be effective in sealing it off from other coatings.

The only thing that I would have changed in your schedule is to reverse the order of Minwax/Solar Lux. Dyes usually are applied first to raw wood, but the Minwax has dye in it too so... A minor thing, really.

I did not apply the Behlen's to the bare wood. I did however overspray and wipe clean.

I guess the issue I face into, is what now? Is there something I can use as a final protective coat? How would I even start over?

[Scott Holmes]

I agree with Bob; a seal coat of shellac will work well.

Waterlox is an excellent phenolic resin/ tung oil varnish that will impark a warm color and will stick to the shellac seal coat beautifully. Phenolic resin varnishes produce one of the hardest varnish finishes available. The only ones harder are the conversion varnishes.

[Brian Pac]

at this point, I am just trying to get a nice protective coat and am not beholden to the waterlox. Could I just use some wipe-on poly, or should I coat with shellac prior to poly?

Thanks for all your help so far

[Bob Barkto]

Without the shellac barrier any wiped or brushed on varnish is likely to exhibit the same problem to some extent.
The solvents combined with wiping or even brushing will loosen the pigment and cause the streaks.
The shellac will prevent this.