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Thread: Need chisel advice

  1. #1

    Need chisel advice

    Meant to post this here last night, that's what I get for staying up that late and trying to use the computer. Man, first post and I screw up.. I rock.

    Long time lurker, need some advice from you guys.

    Finally time to get myself a good set of chisels. I know some would advice me to get a nice old set and recondition, etc. But I have some reward points from a company to spend on any website I want and have a lot to spend, so the first thing I want to get is a nice set of chisels. I know I still could get old chisels and spend the money on something else but my mind is made up!

    Now having said that, I have been eyeing the Lie Nielsen set and was wondering if anyone had any opinions on those or any others I should take a look at instead.

    Any advice is greatly appreciated.

    Thanks

    matt


  2. #2
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    Chisel Advice

    Matt,
    If you can afford the LN chisels get them. Chris Schwarz in in a recent Pop. Woodworking article said they are the best western chisels he's tried. He rated them as good as or better than the Japanese chisels he's tried.

    Having said that, I own a set of Matsumura white steel bench chisels and highly recommend them. Mark Duginski called them "the Ferrari of bench chisels". I got mine from Japan Woodworker. I've had excelent service from Craftsman Studio as well.

  3. #3
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    I have not handled the LN's, so I cannot comment on them, but I really like my Nishiki's from Joel at www.toolsforworkingwood.com. I especially like the feel of the paring chisels.
    Old age can be better than the alternative.

  4. #4
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    I've come to think it doesn't really matter all that much what bench chisels you get, assuming some base quality such as Two Cherries and/or Japanese (that is, not cheap garbage). I hardly ever use them (Two Cherries set of 6 and a set of 12 Iyori from Woodcraft). However, when you talk about mortising and paring and carving and timber framing chisels, it gets very important which chisels you use. This is where I put all my money and concern when choosing what to get.

    Pam

  5. #5
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    Pam, you didn't say which brand of paring chisels that you use. You like Tasai don't you? What about mortising chisels? You are an experienced woodworker, and Matt might like to know.
    Old age can be better than the alternative.

  6. #6
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    Yes, I like Tasai a lot, as well as Funahiro and a bunch of non-famous Japanese maker chisels I've recently bought on ebay (they're expertly forged, great wrapping of the soft steel with cutting steel). I also like the Fujihiro (Imai) quite a bit.

    However, if you're going to buy a set of these, it's very, very expensive. I buy them one or two at a time as needed.

    And a bunch of ancient laminated western chisels by various makers are also great. I bought these on ebay, too. Brands are Witherby, Swan, Buck Bros (old ones), PS&W/Pexto, Jennings,

    Take a look at the Hiraide (http://www.japanesetools.com/index.html), Hida (http://www.hidatool.com/wood.html), and Misugi (http://www.misugidesigns.com/aboutUs.html) sites. I don't think you can go wrong with any of the chisels they offer.

    Carving chisels are a whole different issue. I prefer Dastra, Addis, and Pfeil.

    Pam

  7. #7
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    Hmm, I posted a reply to this thread yesterday, but it seems to be gone now.

    Unless old tool collecting interests you (and it is fun) I would suggest going with a modern set like Two Cherries. Intact sets of vintage chisels are very hard to come by, in my experience, and command a very large premium when you do find one. I belive Diefenbacher(sp?), Traditional Wood worker, and Tools For Wood Working all see the TC economy set of bench chisels, which aren't finished quite as nicely but are just as good. Lee Valley sells a set of 6 Hirsch Firmers for $89, which are supposedly the same steel used in Two Cherries. Diefenbacher has a lot of good information about chisels and steels.

  8. #8
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    Re: Chisel Advice

    Matt, the chisels James mentions are all considered high quality.The only problem with the Two Cherries is the blade is highly polished all over. This means it would take alot of work to flatten the back of the chisel. All reports I've read of the LN chisels is the back requires very little work.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pam Niedermayer
    I've come to think it doesn't really matter all that much what bench chisels you get, assuming some base quality such as Two Cherries and/or Japanese (that is, not cheap garbage). I hardly ever use them (Two Cherries set of 6 and a set of 12 Iyori from Woodcraft). However, when you talk about mortising and paring and carving and timber framing chisels, it gets very important which chisels you use. This is where I put all my money and concern when choosing what to get.

    Pam
    Is Woodcraft now selling Iyoroi's? I didn't know that.

    Gene

  10. #10
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    I bought them three or so years ago from a Woodcraft that was franchised at the time and the labels match; but I suppose there are no guarantees. To be honest, Woodcraft made no claims as to brand.

    Pam

  11. #11
    I recommend you get a set of Marples from Amazon to start with. 40 bucks or so.

    250 bucks for a beginner set of chisels doesn't pass the common sense test when you've a bunch of tools to acquire to make a shop. Moreover, A2 steel is harder to sharpen and you'll be better served by carbon steel to begin with until your sharpening skills improve.

    The only real difference 'tween excellent and mediocre chisels is finish and edge holding ability.

    It'll take you slightly longer to flatten the backs of the Marples and you'll have to sharpen them slightly more often.

    And that's great news...because by the time you wear these out, you'll be real good at it and will no longer need jigs or 600-dollar fancy grinders or expensive indexing plates and diamond paste to do it well.

    I'm not fooling....by all means buy a middlin grade and use them up. I used a handmedown, garden-variety set of Footprints for a long, long time...like 40 years...before I switched to something better.

    Once you have a baseline set of chisels, you can gradually replace them with rehabbed cast steel beauties off of Ebay for pennies...2-10 dollars each. I still prefer the old cast steel Witherby, Gillespie, Buck, Chas Buck, Greenlee, PS&W, Swan and many others to modern A2 ans M2 steel....easy to sharpen is important for me in a bench chisel or gouge, where the stones sit out on the bench for quick touchups.

    Rehabbing Old Chisels:

    http://www.cianperez.com/Wood/WoodDo...on_Chisels.htm

    More Chisels:

    http://media5.hypernet.com/cgi-bin/U...=1&t=010117&p=



    Seek advice on new purchases, but ignore all this, "my prestige thingy is better than your prestige thingy"...

    ...and just continue to work wood.

    Tis the wood you leave, eh? Not the wood you remove or how you remove it.
    Last edited by Bob Smalser; 09-10-2004 at 10:46 AM.
    “Perhaps then, you will say, ‘But where can one have a boat like that built today?’ And I will tell you that there are still some honest men who can sharpen a saw, plane, or adze...men (who) live and work in out of the way places, but that is lucky, for they can acquire materials for one third of city prices. Best, some of these gentlemen’s boatshops are in places where nothing but the occasional honk of a wild goose will distract them from their work.” -- L Francis Herreshoff

  12. #12
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    Thanks for those links, Bob.
    The articles are great!

  13. #13
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    Matt,
    I have a mixed set of Two Cherries (which is high carbon steel) and a set of L-N chisels. With all due respect to Bob, I don't find it any more difficult to sharpen the A2 of the L-Ns compared to the Two Cherries. Your time is your own of course, and only you can evaluate whether or not you want to spend it rehabbing older chisels. I know that my experience with eBay to date is that "brand name" older chisels, with handles, that I could reasonably hope to use when they arrive, do not cost pennies.

    My take is that if you can afford one set of good chisels, the L-N will last your life time, won't need to be upgraded because their limitations frustrate you, and probably will be handed on to the next generation. If someone else is footing some or all of the bill for them, even better.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Smalser
    I recommend you get a set of Marples from Amazon to start with. 40 bucks or so.

    250 bucks for a beginner set of chisels doesn't pass the common sense test when you've a bunch of tools to acquire to make a shop. Moreover, A2 steel is harder to sharpen and you'll be better served by carbon steel to begin with until your sharpening skills improve.

    The only real difference 'tween excellent and mediocre chisels is finish and edge holding ability.

    It'll take you slightly longer to flatten the backs of the Marples and you'll have to sharpen them slightly more often.

    And that's great news...because by the time you wear these out, you'll be real good at it and will no longer need jigs or 600-dollar fancy grinders or expensive indexing plates and diamond paste to do it well.

    I'm not fooling....by all means buy a middlin grade and use them up. I used a handmedown, garden-variety set of Footprints for a long, long time...like 40 years...before I switched to something better.

    Once you have a baseline set of chisels, you can gradually replace them with rehabbed cast steel beauties off of Ebay for pennies...2-10 dollars each. I still prefer the old cast steel Witherby, Gillespie, Buck, Chas Buck, Greenlee, PS&W, Swan and many others to modern A2 ans M2 steel....easy to sharpen is important for me in a bench chisel or gouge, where the stones sit out on the bench for quick touchups.

    Rehabbing Old Chisels:

    http://www.cianperez.com/Wood/WoodDo...on_Chisels.htm

    More Chisels:

    http://media5.hypernet.com/cgi-bin/U...=1&t=010117&p=



    Seek advice on new purchases, but ignore all this, "my prestige thingy is better than your prestige thingy"...

    ...and just continue to work wood.

    Tis the wood you leave, eh? Not the wood you remove or how you remove it.
    I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks $250 for a set of chisels is, uh, a bit overboard, especially for a beginner. I'm not knocking anyone who buys them, I'm sure they're quality all the way and if you enjoy them and can afford it, by all means, go ahead. You can buy a set of 4 marples blue chips at Lowes for $20. I'm sure I'm nowhere as advanced in WW as some of the folks who own the LNs, but the blue chips do everything I need. I keep a phenolic plate loaded with 1000, 1500, and 2000 grit SC sandpaper handy and usually touch up before using. I learned to sharpen knives freehand on an oilstone at a very early age, so sharpening doesn't phase me in the least. When making a lot of cuts in softwoods (like the cedar pergola I just completed), I touch up regularly since the softwood fibers want to bend rather than sever.

    I'm also not sure what the knock is on Two Cherries being "hard to flatten" due to the polished steel. I own a TC mortising chisel and the blade is mirror bright. When I got it and went to flatten the back, about 4 passes on 150-grit sandpaper on a 1/4" glass plate showed even abrasion all the way across, indicating the back was already very flat.

  15. #15
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    James,
    I'm not trying to be argumentative (well, maybe just a bit), but why are we assuming that Matt is a beginner woodworker? I agree that if someone is just trying out WWing to see if they like it, then $250 for a set of chisels might be a bit steep. But for a person who knows that they like the activity and understands that quality tools cost money, maybe the case could be made that they should buy one good set of quality tools and get back to the activity they love.

    Oh, and I agree with you that one of the the strengths of the TC chisels that I have is how easy it was to flatten the backs. Maybe the poster who had that experience got a bad batch, or maybe he was commenting on the laquer that they slather all over them and has to be removed before flattening.

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