Stand alone Jointer and planers for shop

[Kevin Crawford]

Hello,
I think I have decided against A J/p Combo for my shop in favor of stand alone units. But as much as I would love to get felder/MM/ect planer and jointer, I still want to keep the budget for the two peices less than 10k. I was thinking about the Hammer A3 41A( their 16" jointer) and the Powermatic 209HH( 20 inch planer w Bryd).
For the jointer, I'd like it to be a 16", and the planer I'd like it to be 20-22" and to have the bryd head in it. I dont think I need to have the byrd in Jointer( it will give me a little extra money for another machine). If I need both sides to be pristine, I'll just flip the board over for a final pass in the planer.
Anyone have either of these machines? Thoughts or experience with them? And I would love to hear some suggestions on other machines to look into.

[Glenn Ancona]

kevin - talk to this guy. It appears things are slow in Michigan if that is not way far
http://www.woodweb.com/exchanges/mac...ts/453939.html
Machine looks to be in great condition.

good luck in your search - Glenn

[Jeff Duncan]

What are you using currently? Only reason I ask is b/c $10k is a LOT to tie up into 2 classic style woodworking machines If we know a little more about your situation you may get some different ideas?

I picked up a 20" SCM planer and a 16" EMA jointer for much less than half of what your looking to spend, and that Powermatic isn't even in the same league as the SCM. Not sure about the quality of the Hammer as I haven't ever used one. Both my machines are straight knife, but as they are industrial machines they work very well with minimal tear out. With a Powermatic or similar machine I think the insert head would be a good choice.

good luck,
JeffD

[David Kumm]

+1 on the 900 series JP for a combo. Your budget allows for medium to higher end hobby grade if you buy new and medium to higher end industrial if you go used. The jointer in particular is better sourced used. SCMI 410, Northerfield 16HD or Oliver 166CD have long tables, superior bearings, and will stand up to anything you can drop on it. Fences are much larger and stouter as well. $3-5K is high end for used jointers and light years ahead of the Hammer. Planers are tougher to find used with a byrd head although they show up periodically. A Powermatic 180 retrofitted with a byrd will be in the $3000-4500 range but still way above the newer machines of the same price in build quality. The really heavy old planers were 24" which may be more than you care to deal with but have separate motors for cutterhead and feed rollers and weigh in double at 2500-3000 lbs. I would consider a SCMI 20" with a Tersa head in the 4-6K range. Way better planer and the tersa is a great system. If you do it right you will have enough left over to get a rotary phase converter and open up a whole new world of options. Dave

[Rick Fisher]

I have a 12" Griggio Jointer with Tersa Knives and a General 330-1 20" Planer which is basically the PM you mentioned. The Planer has a helical head.

There have been a few times I wished the jointer was wider, but more often I wished it was longer.. Its about 96" long overall..

The ideal jointer to me would be a used SCM Formula 16" with 102" (approx) tables (as David mentioned)... The problem is that they are 3 phase, but for your budget, you can make that happen. They also take up an impressive amount of space.

In my case, my jointer is far superior to my planer. It becomes an " ugly cousin " relationship. The planer is 20" .. and helical, but its very obvious when using both that its not the same quality machine as the jointer.

Longer term, I would love to find a good used SCM or Felder Planer .. Problem is that even used they are big bucks..

I have started buying and selling used industrial machinery and recently picked up a used Felder Edge Sander .. I plan to spend a few years testing it before selling .. lol I mention the Euro stuff because you mentioned the Hammer.. Once you have a few Euro machines in your shop, you realize that you get what you pay for ..

[David Kumm]

Rick, the Griggio is on par with the SCMI. Great machines as are Kolle if you find one. The advantage of the Oliver, Porter 300CM and some Northfields is the guard swings out of the way allowing for jointing wider boards. The Porter works really well, the Oliver less well. All jointers can be retrofitted with swing away guards. would make your Griggio even better. 96" tables should be minimum. I even added 20" felder table to the outfeed of my Porter making it 115" overall. An Oliver 299 ITCH is a pretty nice planer although you have to learn how to grind the inserts- once or twice in a lifetime. The footprint is as small as a 24" planer gets and a proscale makes it repeatable. Once you get three phase and use the bigger stuff you won't go back. Dave

[Kevin Crawford]

Thanks for the reply's guys,
To elaborate on my situation, I am moving into a larger shop later this year(850sf, not huge but bigger than I have now) and upgrading most of my machines so I can transition from hobbyist to prof. I'd like to start with getting jointer, planer, slider TS, and hopefully sliding shaper, not to mention the Dust Co and ducting and misc hand power tools and such. I can spend about 30k on the transition for tools.
The weight of the machines is an issue. I will have a wood floor(beefed up wood floor but wood floor none the less) so I don't want to put any 2000lb+ machine on it. I'd like to stay under 1700-1800lb and with a box style base instead of a three point base.
I haven't used a machinery moving company before. How much do they usually run to move the machine? For the sake of the question lets assume there moving it within 100miles.
In reference to the phase converter, do they save you any money on power when running your machines or does it just add the flexibility to use three phase machines?

[Van Huskey]

@ 850sf with a 16" jointer, 20+ inch planer, slider and large shaper and you haven't even mentioned sanders I would take a serious look at layout. With just what you mentioned along with work benches, storage etc that space is closing in tight in my head. I understand the desire for a wider planer but in that space it seems a J/P like the Felder 900 series would be just the ticket.

[Jerome Hanby]

I just didn't trust moving guys with my shop stuff. I rented a short moving truck with a lift gate for a week and moved all my shop gear myself. In my case I had roll out access on both ends of the move. The folding shop crane form HF was a huge help also.

[David Kumm]

850 sq ft will get used up in a hurry. I would look at the JP combo and add a little Delta DC33 type planer with a byrd head if you need a finish planer or a little 6" jointer for edges. Both can be stored out of the way and minimize the switchover time. If you can rent a JLG drop deck trailer and a pallet jack you can move about anything. Dave

[Larry Edgerton]

Spend more money on the planer than the jointer. Its easier to get by with a marginal jointer than a marginal planer.

There are a ton of SCMI planers on the market used for about 4500. As good as most of us ever need.

Individual pieces are better for me.

Rick, what model is your Griggio? I'm looking at a used one, was just curious.

Larry

[David Kumm]

Have you seen the SCMI jointer on woodweb? Dave

[Larry Edgerton]

Saw that one David, looks to be taken care of but has a straight knife head, and its a bit far away.

There was a Griggio PF330 out east at a good price but no pics and I see it is not on the list any more. Thats why I asked about that particular machine the other day.

I am in no hurry, one will come up that is just right........

Larry

[John A langley]

Kevin. Hope you are buying a shoe horn with that equipment. A 20" planer is an ideal size. I would get it with a tusa head. However, you can get a 15" planer that would save a little room and you could do a panel with only one seam up to 30"' but you would have to glue after you ran your panels. As far as the jointer goes, the wider the better obviously. I hesitate to recommend any brands. But I sent back a 20" Powermatic planer. I don't know if it was just that one, but it was junk. You could also rethink the joiner if you are getting a European style slider. They are great for joining lumber but they won't take a twist out of a board like a joiner will. Just a couple a quick thoughts. Good luck with your endeavors.

[David Kumm]

Kevin, three phase is the way to go IMO. Better motors, fewer problems, more flexibility. You won't save any energy as the RPC consumes some. I believe you can pay for the RPC through machinery savings as single phase machines sell at a premium. I wish my single phase machines were three phase and have never wished for the opposite . Dave