Setting up in a mall kiosk

[Dave Johnson29]

Sorry for the bulk response, but...

My advice to Bret was the same as Tim's, own everything, don't borrow to do this.

Bret has his day job so I am assuming this is a disposable attempt. If it works, great, if it doesn't at least he tried and it has cost him something for the school fees. Maybe re-read that article on entrepreneurs bouncing back that I posted in an earlier reply.

Yes, $48K is a lot of overhead before you burn anything. But, comparing traffic patterns for a 2,300sq ft building on an industrial estate and 5,000 (or whatever) people passing the booth daily in a Mall is not a reasonable comparison. Also Bret will have a good idea of what works well before he has spent the full annual charge. If he can get the 90-day lease then that would be under 10-grand. Given the current business climate I would be amazed if he can't haggle a great deal on the kiosk.

OK, so no one has done many cell phones or ipods, but that is because you never tried to build the demand. That is what I am talking about when I say my approach is to develop a need then sell that rather than waiting for someone to ask you to do something.

So here I give you an edge by exposing one of my methods for free. I got an ipod and burned a radical looking piece of Dungeons and Dragons type artwork on it. I took it to the local net-cafe's after 7:00pm when they were full of kids.

For the first net-cafe I went to, I offered to do the first 5 free. I walked out with 5 ipods and next day I delivered. Two days later there were 12 ipods to pick up. The rest is, as they say, history with probably 100+ ipods done. Oh, and I sold that first ipod that same day. I have never used one and have no need for one, it was merely a vehicle to deliver the product.

OK, guys I will bow out of this conversation as it seems we are never going to agree. I believe I use an entrepreneur's approach rather than satisfying a demand because I create a need or want. Learn, don't learn, follow, don't follow, up to the individual.

All I was trying to impart to Bret was, if you think it will work, it doesn't take bread off the table and money is the only thing to lose then give it your best shot. Only Bret can make that decision whether to risk the cash or not.

I am not so sure about the "while you wait," approach as that puts a lot of pressure on the Corel/Laser user, but certainly a 1-day turn around seems to work. Set it all up on a laptop in the Mall and at home and then go into the Mall as early as you can get through the doors and start burning yesterday's orders. Quit sleeping if you have to.

Oh, and Bret, if you do go ahead with this when you set up the laser consider setting up two angled overhead mirrors at about eye level so that people passing can see what's happening inside the laser. The flashing laser will be like a free neon sign.

Finally for the Cermark thing, use the tape instead of spraying. Warning: I have never used the tape.

Just my 2c worth.

[Scott Shepherd]

OK, guys I will bow out of this conversation as it seems we are never going to agree. I believe I use an entrepreneur's approach rather than satisfying a demand because I create a need or want. Learn, don't learn, follow, don't follow, up to the individual.

Dave, no need to bow out. Nothing wrong with different opinions. You touched on exactly my point though. If you are going to offer a 1 day turn around, then you could have a store offsite of the mall for a fraction of the price, work a deal with people that are already in the mall to get the orders. Then you get the orders from the mall, yet you pay rent elsewhere. I think that's just the entrepreneur spirit you are talking about!

Certainly no need to bow out of the conversation. I've enjoyed reading your thoughts and links.

[Tim Bateson]

I agree no need to bow out. Bret needs to hear all sides of this issue. In fact I agree a lot more with your last post. I've been proven wrong before.. Just ask my wife.

[Bret Gordon]

OK, so no one has done many cell phones or ipods, but that is because you never tried to build the demand. That is what I am talking about when I say my approach is to develop a need then sell that rather than waiting for someone to ask you to do something.

Gang, Thanks so much for all of the continued input. Following this thread has been very enlightening and thought-provoking. I appreciate that everybody is sharing their honest opinion and I don't consider it as nay-saying but as valuable advice from experienced practicioners. I still think this is a solid idea but after reading this thread, I am going to think long and hard about jumping into the mall kiosk if I can't get a short-term lease considering the cost of rent.

On the other hand, I am not going to let my entrepreneurial dream fade due to the risks (After all, isn't entrepreneurship all about taking calculated risks)? If I have to start up in my garage...so be it.

Dave -- I love your enthusiasm and entrepreneurial spirit and I agree with your statement about building a demand like you did with your Ipod experiment.

Thanks again to everybody for your input and I'm excited that this thread has taken on a life of its own as it will hopefully help many aspiring entrepreneurs like me in the future!

Bret

[pete hagan]

[
Good detail on specs in the ad but no reason WHY they are selling. My guess is that the entrepreneur spirit took hold but not enough upfront work to make it work. What this poor soul does not know, unless they are very lucky, is that selling this 37K laser even at a slight discount will be tough in today’s economy. On a happy note my laser paid for itself on three jobs, two which I sold to get the laser and one that came from a referral from the first two. Starting up with a great attitude but no commitment, ie.. actual orders with money attached will lead to frustration. Trust what everyone here is telling you especially about the retail kiosks..They are money pits and you just end up supporting someone’s large mall mortgage.

Best of luck.

Pete

[Dave Johnson29]

Guys, thanks for the encouragement, but I was not running and hiding when I said bow out. It is just that to continue, I would have to become repetitive. I have stated my views on this issue and in several other similar threads over the past months. I always meet opposition from the entrenched businesses that have relied on customers coming to them.

I enjoy spirited discussion but see no point in being repetitive. My approach and Onur Kakir's (an probably a few others here) approach to this stuff is totally different to most people here. I have so often heard "get the laser to add to your capabilities, don't get a laser to start the business." While that is good solid and sage advice for someone thinking of starting a laser business, I disagree strongly with that under some clearly defined circumstances.

The underlying thing I see with Bret is that he is not giving up his day job. That makes this a 100% entrepreneurial adventure and that attitude should be encouraged with 90% enthusiasm and 10% practicality. It is OK to lose money, there is no shame in a dream failing as long as you learn from it along the way and can bounce back with new ideas. As I said before, if it is not taking bread from the table and not borrowed money, then give it a shot. Don't make me quote from Othello here.

Take Ron Popeil for instance. I am not sure if he owns or holds any patents but the stuff he sells is pretty ordinary in the greater scheme of things. Where he is THE Master entrepreneur is generating the need for whatever is his current passion. I mean, spray on hair? He sold millions of cans.

A chicken roaster? Pretty much every oven built in the last 20 years will have a rotisserie option. My BBQ has one available for 25-bucks. It is not the product he sells, it is the need for the product that he creates and sells.

OK, finally back on-track to the Mall. The thing Bret would have is 5000 people a day walking past his kiosk. That's a LOT of passing eyes. If he finds a niche (I am not saying it has to be cell phones or ipods et al) and drives it hard, there is great potential with that many people glancing his way **every day,** providing he has the niche covered.

I accept the difference in rent costs but as it is as in the restaurant business, the important thing is bums on seats or in Bret's case, passing eyes. That's why it costs $3K/month as the Mall management spends big bucks getting people to wander the halls of the malls. If he haggles for good placement outside say, Sears or Penny's etc he will be getting probably 80% of the daily Mall traffic.

Does he stand a chance of failing? You bet and the odds are pretty strong against him and it may well be tough, BUT unless something is 100% certain then he may not fail. Risk is the only way forward if you have a dream. If it was easy or assured then everyone would be doing it. That's why entrepreneurs make up such a small part of the population.

I am happy to stay with this thread but I am just about out of new thoughts to toss back into the thinking pot.

[Scott Shepherd]

to continue, I would have to become repetitive.

no point in being repetitive.

Now that cracked me up Dave! I don't think you meant it, but when parsed, it's funny to me

[Anthony Scira]

There is a guy who has a sticker kisok at the local mall. Looks like he does ok business, but the vinyl plotter is way cheaper than a laser.

Problem is really the set up and pricing. Seems like the going price is 80 - 120 bucks for a laptop. And since there are so many different laptops and various materials it would be hard to have it ready to go. I have done a few laptops and after everything it takes a little over an hour with easy custom graphics. And that's not being disturbed.
Looks like a guy that had it all down is doing coveroos. Check out etchstar, dont know what happened to him. Whats a coveroo ?

[Dave Johnson29]

Now that cracked me up Dave! I don't think you meant it, but when parsed, it's funny to me

Scott,

You say "parsed," but I say "out of context," but I will grant some leeway there. Too early in the morning and my internet had been off for the first two hours of the day, my key order gathering time.

I'll try not to repeatedly, repeat myself.

Now Scott, repeat, recite, ingeminate and reiterate several times after me, "I will try and stay on topic." In the mean time I will say Mall, Mall and Mall so once again I am least mentioning the Subject 3 times.

[Rob Slaughterbeck]

Take Ron Popeil for instance. I am not sure if he owns or holds any patents but the stuff he sells is pretty ordinary in the greater scheme of things. Where he is THE Master entrepreneur is generating the need for whatever is his current passion. I mean, spray on hair? He sold millions of cans.

A chicken roaster? Pretty much every oven built in the last 20 years will have a rotisserie option. My BBQ has one available for 25-bucks. It is not the product he sells, it is the need for the product that he creates and sells.

Personally, I do not consider Mr. Popeil to be so much an entrepreneur as a very successful salesman. As you stated, much of what he has sold is nothing new, just a better pitch.

Dave, I get the impression that you are in fact a great salesman as well as having good business acumen. I have seen several great businesses fail or struggle simply because they did not have a good sales and marketing strategy. I have also seen mediocre products be very lucrative BECAUSE they had a great sales force (BOSE for example with something like 50% of their revenue going back into advertising).

From a simple business model analysis, a mall kiosk for engraving is doomed from the start. However, with a charismatic salesperson, one could be very successful selling engraved toilet paper with high daily foot traffic. Unfortunately, most people(employees) are not as excited about your business as you(the business owner) are.

If Bret has access to this type of sales talent, there are plenty of products to hawk in the mall will lower financial investment and need for skilled artists than laser engraving. If Bret is looking for a way to pay for a new toy, there are more lucrative ways to market laser engraving services.

Rob

[Dan Hintz]

While Ron was the ultimate salesman, he was also one of the most prolific inventors (and took after his father who did the same thing, with the Veg-O-Matic being possibly the best known). The man could sell ice to an eskimo, but that doesn't mean that's all he did.

Excuse me while I go sing into my Mr. Microphone (by RonCo!)...