Have/Will "guided saw systems" change your shop

[Jerry Golick]

Hi everyone,

I know this thread is somewhat old, but as a new member I thought I'd throw in my .02 - fwiw.

I've been using a CSGS for about 6 months now. I chose it over a table saw because:

- I felt it was safer
- I felt it was cleaner
-NB: I have the F system with the dust extractor
- It meant I didn't have to purchase a SCMS
- I am mostly working with full size sheet materials (melamine and MDF in particular) and manhandling that weight on a TS didn't look like fun
- The system does a very good job minimizing chip out on the melamine for a reasonable cost
- It was portable
- Angle cuts are trivial to make both ripping and cross cutting
- It doesn't take up too much room
- Its great for cabinet making and flooring type jobs
- There are more accessories available that I can add over time to increase its functionality
- Replacement blades are fairly low cost.

Downsides - have mostly been mentioned so far - but I am still sold on my CSGS.

Overall I find the system very accurate and easy to use.

[Steve Clardy]

After rereading this post again I though I would post here again.
I got my Eureka system up and running and took it to the CCBBC.
Had quite a bit of interest in it.
I personally say that it does a great job. Though it will not replace my table saw, it will be very handy end cutting panels. I will also use it on job sites where I need to rip panel stock.
The anti chip is great. It is almost impossible to have chipout on plywood, especially on end cuts.

Steve

[Richard Blaine]

I got my Eureka system up and running and took it to the CCBBC.
Had quite a bit of interest in it.
Steve

I'm curious as to what brand and model saw you are using, and whether you mounted it with double stick tape or screws.

Anybody else with this system, please chime in with your choice of saw and method of attachment.

[John Miliunas]

I'm curious as to what brand and model saw you are using, and whether you mounted it with double stick tape or screws.

Anybody else with this system, please chime in with your choice of saw and method of attachment.

Richard, I have the same system and concur with all Steve has said about it. Neat system, no tearout, very portable and extremely versatile. As for saw, I've actually used my system with two different saws. First was a Dewalt with a CMT blade and I had the base screwed on. Worked very well, but kicked up a storm of dust, as does any regular circular saw. Then, for my B-day, I was gifted a Ryobi 7-1/4" with a dust port on the back. On this one, I decided to just try the base with double-stick. It works BUT, I have found that it like to get a bit loose. I will be re-doing it and drilling holes, so that I can fasten the base with screws. The DC port, by the way, does a pretty admirable job. It get the bulk of the chips, especially those which seemed to kick off the back of the saw and make their way up toward the eyes and mouth. There still is a fair amount of sawdust, which escapes off to the side of the blade, as well as off the front. Still better than stock, though.

[Paul Berendsohn]

As has been ummm well documented I'm a big ummmm (looking around nervously for moderator) ... Eureka SmartGuide fan. I've used the Ryobi saw mentioned previously and it did quite a good job. On my second set up I popped for a Porter Cable 325 Mag and installed a Diablo blade on it. No question that I get superior performance from this saw/blade combo albeit at a price of nearly three times the Ryobi. I also use the double stick tape and haven't had any loosening on it myself. Largely for jollies, I made a cut with the OE "Framer" blade, and then with the Freud. Attached is a rather large image of the results for anyone interested...

Best Wishes to all...

Paul

[Steve Clardy]

I'm curious as to what brand and model saw you are using, and whether you mounted it with double stick tape or screws.

Anybody else with this system, please chime in with your choice of saw and method of attachment.

Hi Richard. I opted to bolt my base on over using the tape. I have only one saw, and figured if I need to remove the base, it would be lots easier than dealing with the tape.
I am using my Porter Cable framers saw, model 447. It has a nice large base, and set in the E base real nice. I did have to remove some of the casting ribs on the pc base with a rotozip bit. So the bolt heads and washers would set down flatter. After drilling the holes and finding the bolts and washers sitting at an angle didn't suit me. Some of the other brands of saws with the stamped metal base probably won't have that problem.

Steve

[Curt Putnam]

The question is: are or will current practices be modified by guide systems.

The answer is yes & yes. I do not possess the skills to cut an 8' line without a guide. The question then rapidly devolves into what system? I believe that the major contenders will do what they claim to do equally well. So the question then breaks down into what saw(s) and what blade(s).

The only commonly available blade (that I know of) that does a decent job is the Freud 40 tooth. It's only made in 7 1/4" which leaves out the PC trim saws and SawBoss. One problem, for me, is that blade right saws are incomprehensible and reprehensible - I just can't function with them. However, with a good guide I suppose I can manage to avoid cutting me. It seems to me that a required part of the equation is a saw that has close to zero runout. PCs, Festool (and maybe others) seem to be that good.

So, one system allows one to mix and match gear and the other requires a total marriage. OTOH, if one has to buy a saw anyway, then the systems are comparably priced (ignoring vacuums.)

Watching & Reading,

Curt

[Mark Blumer]

I have a basement shop with a single entry...an internal set of stairs with a 90 degree twist at both top and bottom. I have a very good and very heavy table saw (I don't want to remember what I had to do to get it down to my shop) but it is physically impossible to get a full sheet of 3/4" plywood or MDF down my stairs. I recently bought a GCSS to aid in precutting the sheet goods in my garage before I bring the wood down to the shop. I expect that it really will make a huge difference in my ability to make projects based on sheet goods.

Mark Blumer (East Lansing, MI)

[Bart Leetch]

Tom LaRussa

." It seems to me that a Band-saw is another superior method for cutting tenons -- it cuts slower, so you have more chance to fix a cut before it goes completely wrong, plus you can get a lot closer to the action, so can see what the heck you're doing. Sure, one certainly could damage oneself quite badly with a band-saw

Tom I believe that if you use a tenoning jig you'll find that the cheek cuts for a tenon are smoother on a Table-saw than when done on a Band-saw.
Also your hands don't come anywhere close to the blade & the material is clamped solid in the jig & you can see what your doing. All this was pointed out by Norm Abrams as the reason that they use the Table-saw to cut tenons on a resent show.

[Tom LaRussa]

Bart,

Tom I believe that if you use a tenoning jig you'll find that the cheek cuts for a tenon are smoother on a Table-saw than when done on a Band-saw.

That's probably true, but Bob Smalser makes the point that tenons should always be cut outside the lines anyway and finished with a hand plane. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=13260

Also your hands don't come anywhere close to the blade

Your hands don't come anywhere close to the blade -- except by accident. And a table saw accident is generally going to be much bloodier than a band saw accident, IMHO.

& the material is clamped solid in the jig & you can see what your doing.

I don't think it's so much that you can see what you're doing. It's more that you don't need to see what you're doing. You simply set up the mechanical process and the machine does the woodworking for you while you watch.

I like Norm. He's a great carpenter -- but that's also his problem. He thinks like a framer, not a cabinet maker. He produces one-offs but his methods are those of the factory. Maybe if Lie-Nielsen gave him a few thousand dollars worth of planes...

[Steve Jenkins]

I don't expect that a gcss will ever replace my ALtendorf BUT I actually did use one the other day on a project. I was making a template for table legs that was sort of in the shape of a boomerang except the edges were straight.
Four edges four different angles. Rather than messing around on the big saw I just used the guide. Lined it up on the marks and cut,moved to the next ones and cut. At that point I didn't know or care what the exact angles were, I just knew it looked right. When I had to glue up stock for the legs of course I had to measure the angles but the guide sure made it easier and faster to cut out the template.

[Tom LaRussa]

Have/Will Guided Saw Systems Changed Your Shop?

After my recent disaster with the plywood cascade -- http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=12951 -- I have to answer NO to this question.

Why?

Because I have made a solemn vow that no full sheet of anything will ever enter my shop again!

If I simply must use plywood (or MDF or whatever) to build something, I will have it ripped slightly oversized by the supplier and cut it to fit on my TS.