Keeping wood free of powder post beetles

[Allan Speers]

Thanks for all the tips. It sounds like that fumigation method is the simplest, and probably cheapest method. I just wonder if it gets deep enough into the wood. It sounds like the Bora Care shjould fully penetrate into the wood. What happens when you plane that stuff? Does it put some toxins in the air?
Will I need to unstack my whole pile to apply the bora care to each individual board, or can I just reach in between the stickers with a pump sprayer? .

I have never seen any "borate dust" per se in the air when milling, but if it is there (and it probably is) then it's mixed in with the fine sawdust, and you are going to avoid breathing THAT anyway. The main thing is, in my limited experience, I have not seen lumber treated with the glycol solution cause any problems with finishing.

Must you coat it all? I have no idea. It's certainly a good idea to spray from the top, not the sides, so that gravity helps, though I don't know for certain that this is necessary. Maybe you could just continuously spray from the top of the pile for a long time, figuring the solution will pass through each board & eventually get to the bottom ones? That would probably be very wasteful, though, and the stuff ' aint cheap.

I coated all of my boards on all surfaces, because I had a pretty large problem. (I lost several thousand BF !) What I did was skip plane all 4 surfaces, so I could look for holes and trails, then cut-away the obviously infected sections. THEN I sprayed it all down.

I needed to rebuild my stacks anyway, (Get tarps underneath, and design-in more air flow.) so for me this was a no-brainer.

[Allan Speers]

Three months ago I had cut down a lot of Bradford pear for my wife's wood turning hobby.... Two weeks after placing it under the shed it showed signs of active powder post beetle infestation (little strings of sawdust coming out of the ends which it been sealed with anchorseal). .....

Tom, that doesn't sound right. Everything I've read says the strings / piles of sawdust only appear when the mature larvae leave the lumber. Again, what I've read is: The beetle lands on the lumber and deposits eggs in cracks & crevices. There is no boring, per se. The eggs hatch, and the larvae start eating their way into the wood. They can live in there for 1-5 years, (depending on the exact species) before maturing and then boring their way out. It is only THEN that you see the tell-tale signs, which is why PPB are so serious a problem.

If this is not correct, then someone please correct me, and with details. However, if this IS correct, then you probably already had an infestation, several years before you cut down the tree. Was the tree sick, or had a dead branch, or previously hit by lightning? ? Why was it cut in the first place?

Those pesticides you used would certainly have killed any larvae left in the wood. (though it's likely that they had all left already.) The problem is, 6 months later when the mature females come back to re-lay eggs, the pesticides will have broken down and by then be useless.

Also, it kinda' goes without saying, but your wife needs to be extra careful when turning wood treated with chemicals. I hope she's wearing a respirator designed for such pesticides, not just a dust mask. (Borate powder gets trapped by normal dust masks.)

[Cody Colston]

Cody and I are both mill operators...

LOL, that's like saying a Boeing 747 Captain and an ultra-light operator are both pilots!

All, I have an entry-level, fully manual, band sawmill. I saw lumber for my own use, both woodworking and construction projects. I have a 300 bf capacity solar kiln for drying.

Scott saws primarily QS Oak, often in dimensions that my little 30 hp tractor wouldn't even lift. He runs a commercial operation, has equipment and capabilities that I can only dream about and has run a dry kiln for many years. If you can successfully dry Oak, you can dry anything. I certainly defer to him on any wood processing topics.

[Allan Speers]

The way the boric acid works is it makes adult beetles sterile. It doesn't kill any larvae already in the wood.

This is 100% contrary to what I've read. It breaks down the larvae's exoskeletons, just as it does on ants, termites, and roaches. The little critters dehydrate to death within 24 hours. Eggs simply dry up & die almost instantly.

In some white Oak that I recently milled, which was treated earlier this year with Bora Care, I actually found a lot of dead larvae, deep in the sapwood.
---------------

Perhaps what David was mistakenly referring to was the fact that an egg-laying adult only comes in contact with your lumber via it's reproductive system, so that's all that gets damaged. - On the mother.

Try sprinkling boric acid on an ant nest some time. By the next day, everything is wiped out.

[Jim Andrew]

Could someone answer if this treatment will kill ash borers? And should you put it on the log before sawing for a few days, as they are supposed to live in the bark, and if that will get rid of the borers? Or do you need to spray each board?

[Allan Speers]

Could someone answer if this treatment will kill ash borers? And should you put it on the log before sawing for a few days, as they are supposed to live in the bark, and if that will get rid of the borers? Or do you need to spray each board?

AFAIK, Borates will kill any insect with an exoskeleton.

As for your other questions, the bugs have to physically come into contact with the borates, that's all I can tell you.

[Cody Colston]

Could someone answer if this treatment will kill ash borers? And should you put it on the log before sawing for a few days, as they are supposed to live in the bark, and if that will get rid of the borers? Or do you need to spray each board?

EAB eggs are laid in the bark crevices but the larva live in the cambium layer, just underneath the bark. They disrupt the flow of nutrients and the tree dies from the top down.

If you remove all the bark when sawing the logs, there is no further worry about the EAB. However, dry Ash lumber is highly susceptible to PPB's so it still needs to be treated to prevent infestation or heated to kill any existing infestation.

[Jim Andrew]

The last time I sawed ash lumber, it was a little time between getting the log cut down and sawing it. There were borers in the wood by the time I sawed it. Took the boards to the air compressor and blew out the holes, thinking I rid myself of the borers. Stacked and stickered the boards, went back in a few months, and the boards were ruined from the boards having so many big holes. So I trashed them. Have not sawn any ash since, but could use some. Was considering spraying the bark with tempo, can buy from the coop. Label says it kills ppb, all sorts of bugs, but would prefer not to have to use it if this borate will work.

[Allan Speers]

According to this: http://www.researchgate.net/profile/...eae4000000.pdf

The borate solution they tested was not very effective against ash borers. However, it seems they dod NOT use a glycol-based solution (surprisingly) the the stuff probably didn't penetrate far enough into bark. I would be very surprised if a glycol mix did NOT kill them.

How impervious to liquids is bark? Maybe that's the key? Maybe you could drill a bunch of holes, just bark-deep, before spraying. Then the glycol-mix would surely spread out underneath.


Also, on some arborist site, it mentioned having success by mixing boric acid, water, and SUGAR. Evidently, the borers love sweet sap, and the sugar entices them to ingest the borate solution. So, maybe mix up some Bora Care & add in a little sugar as well.

[Scott T Smith]

LOL, that's like saying a Boeing 747 Captain and an ultra-light operator are both pilots!

All, I have an entry-level, fully manual, band sawmill. I saw lumber for my own use, both woodworking and construction projects. I have a 300 bf capacity solar kiln for drying.

Scott saws primarily QS Oak, often in dimensions that my little 30 hp tractor wouldn't even lift. He runs a commercial operation, has equipment and capabilities that I can only dream about and has run a dry kiln for many years. If you can successfully dry Oak, you can dry anything. I certainly defer to him on any wood processing topics.

<grin> Thanks Cody, but I'm still learning too!

[Jim Andrew]

Says that they immersed the logs in the borate solution. That won't work for me. And putting the logs in a building after immersion will not either. Another thought, if you cut down an ash tree, saw it the same day, will the borers still be in the cambrium layer, so maybe if you cut the tree quickly enough, cut all the bark off, the wood might be clear of the borers. A guy could still spray some borate on the boards as you stack them, or maybe just put the tip of your sprayer in the gap between boards and spray away after you have the boards stickered and stacked.

[Mark W Pugh]

Any photos of "Solar ovens" for long pieces of lumber? I have some long lumber that now I'm paranoid about.

Thanks

[Scott T Smith]

Any photos of "Solar ovens" for long pieces of lumber? I have some long lumber that now I'm paranoid about.

Thanks

Define "long lumber"....

Most solar kilns based upon the Virginia Tech design are good for up to 16' board lengths.

[Mark W Pugh]

That size would work.

Define "long lumber"....

Most solar kilns based upon the Virginia Tech design are good for up to 16' board lengths.

[Scott T Smith]

That size would work.

As I recall, VT has two different designs - a small and large size. Here is a photo of the large size. The interior dimensions are a little over 17' long.

solar kiln.JPG