Request for brutaly honest Creekers

[phil harold]

Here's the problem:

"I'm dead set on doing this on my table saw."


~Julie~

His problem is the blade
the same type of blade in a skill saw wood only last so many feet and be harder to push
better he had a 40 or 80 tooth carbide blade

I have not used a non carbide blade in 20 years...

[Mike Circo]

Others have handled the Table saw vs. Circ saw argument, I'll try and handle the blade issue.

You've already dumped the blade... good. Despite it's label, that is, in my estimation, a poor blade for ply. With 200 teeth, there is almost no gullets for sawdust/chip removal. Plywood sawdust contains a lot of the glue used int the bindings and seems "thicker" than regular dry wood dust. The sawdust is probably packing into the tiny gullets, has no where to go and is contributing to binding. Further, there seems to be nearly no set to those teeth meaning that the saw kerf is so narrow that the blade body is right against the wood as you cut making 100% accurate feed critical. Combined with poor sawdust removal, you are probably creating a wedge of sawdust between the blade body and kerf side.

I've never used a blade labeled "plywood". A high quality, SHARP, carbide tooth blade with 40 teeth and up, used correctly gives excellent cut quality on a WELL TUNED table saw.

Turn the blade into a clock and put it on the wall. Buy a Forest WWII or Freud blade. Rough cut first with a circular saw for safety and ease, then final cut with the table saw.

[Aaron Berk]

I'm going to read through the posts and provide any further information as a response to individual comments.

Thanks for checking this out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH1iuCshio4

[Prashun Patel]

It's all been said, but here's my 2c:

1) Use a 50 or 40t general purpose blade.
2) Rough cut the sheet to 1" wider than necessary with a circ saw (even free hand it if you don't want to set up a guide) then clean up the rip on yr tsaw. You'll have more control; less mass to push means less chance of misalignment and kickback.
3) Double/triple check your alignment. If properly aligned, you should be able to do that op with ANY saw.
4) I know he's on the outfeed side, but please get your kid away from the saw when the motor's on. My son's round the same age, and I've trained him to stay out of the room when the motor's on.

[Fred Hargis]

That sounds somewhat like a direct drive saw, which might be part of the problem. But I'm thinking the blade is just as much (or more) of an issue. Try it with a carbide tipped 40 tooth or more blade...if that is a direct drive saw, you might want a thin kerf model (and put a more powerful saw on the shopping list).

[Larry Fox]

You said brutally honest;

1) Get the kid out of the shop when the saw is on.
2) Get yourself a left extension wing. I see you have some support there with the horse but I think an extension wing will be a very good addition.
3) Throw that blade away.
4) The next blade you put on, raise it a bit more.
5) Check to see that your fence is toed (spelling?) out a bit at the back.
6) Use a splitter.
7) While not related to the cut you are trying to make on the saw, your blade storage rack is somewhat terrifying. I would store them flat as opposed to sticking out at an angle like that. If you bent over to grab something or (worse) tripped into them that could be bad. I don't know how high it is off the floor. I also don't like to store sharp things like that up high in case the fell (back to the little guy in the shop).
8) Cut the sheets to rough size using a circ saw and finish up on the TS.

[Alan Zenreich]

I strongly agree with Larry's #1 point.

During your video, I barely noticed the cutting process, as my eyes were glued on watching your boy moving around. If you don't mind my saying, that's where your eyes should have been when the saw was turned on.

Showing kids the workings of a shop is a fine thing, but having them around when a piece of wood could go flying, or worse, is looking for trouble. His ear protection was a good start, but that was covering the very least of the potential problems.

Please take this post in the spirit in which it's intended... one father to another.

[Frank Drew]

Aaron,

You answered it yourself -- you were using the wrong blade for the work. But the saw kept cutting so it's not like the blade was totally unsuited for the job; the saw lagged a bit but didn't bog down or trip any circuit breakers. Use a better blade and you'll be fine.

I'm curious why you were making a video of yourself cutting a sheet of ply in the first place, but more importantly, I think it's a bad practice to have small kids moving all around in the vicinity of equipment in operation, in your line of sight (or, maybe worse, out of sight and who knows where; kickbacks happen, kids turn on things they shouldn't, what if he saw a spider and shrieked while you were in the middle of the cut, etc.) So you had at least three things going on and occupying your mind: You were making a slightly difficult cut given your tooling; you had a small child in there with you, climbing all over; and at least part of your conscious mind was aware that the tape was rolling, that you were addressing some future viewing audience. Too much distraction, IMO.

[I noticed others had raised some of the same points while I was posting, so sorry if I seemed to be piling on.]

[And there's nothing wrong with using a table saw for this kind of cut, but a sheet of ply is heavy so takes extra care to ensure that it's both moving forward and keeping close contact with the fence.]

[Clifford Mescher]

Well, a steel blade with 200 teeth is not ideal for ripping, what looked like 3/4" plywood. I would not use it for anything over 1/8" thick material. Actually, I would not own one.
The problem is all those teetth does not promote proper chip clearing. Being steel, the blade will get hot and that is why you have burn marks all the way through. Carbide, 40 or 50 teeth with deep gullets will give good clearance on the sides and the blade will stay cooler.
The big advantage of carbide is the side clearance and the fact that carbide takes alot to over-heat. Clifford.

[David DeCristoforo]

Have to agree about the blade. That blade is a joke. Get something like this:
http://www.amazon.com/CMT-210-080-10.../dp/B000P4JP9S

Also, while your saw looks to be fitted with a "decent" fence, hold downs and guard, the saw itself leaves a lot to be desired. If you are going to be doing this as a "regular thing", I would seriously consider upgrading your TS. FWIW, (please...this is simply my own personal opinion) if you have a good TS, properly "tuned" and fitted with the "right" blade, it would be absurd to choose a hand held CS as the tool of choice for breaking down sheet stock. Cabinetmakers have been cutting sheets on the TS forever. Of course, a panel saw would be the obvious choice, cost and space being no object. But barring that, the TS is the "right tool for the job".

[Prashun Patel]

I noticed a couple more things:

1) Keep yr breaker panel door closed. Why in the world is it open in a room where a climby boy (I got one too) can get into it and play with all those 'neat switches'
2) You definitely need a splitter. You can make a pop in one for your ZCI that'll be fine for the job.
3) If you're gonna let yr son be around when cutting (again, I wouldn't), then at least don't let him touch the wood while it's being fed past the blade without a splitter. All it takes is little bit of torque to get the cut off to close the kerf, touch the back of the blade and become a projectile.
4) Use a push stick or block not yr hands.

[Mike Gager]

after watching the video ill say it again


1. get a splitter

2. make sure your fence is aligned with the blade

[John Thompson]

Way too many teeth... improper support at the front of the saw as your hands are flexing the ply as you attempt to force it through the blade. The sligthtest flex can move the sheet away from the fence and you have all the ingredients for kick-back. The stock has to stay firm to the fence.

I cut my full ply down with a circular and guide to workable sizes as suggested. If you do a lot of sheets and insist on not taking them down to size you need a panel saw or slider. There is a tremendous amount of friction using full support on a TS to do sheets. The friction is another ingredient that can cause the stock to come off the fence and bind in the blade as it is very difficult to handle the weight and friction single handed.

Please get your kids out of the shop when you are actually cutting. They can be distractive and that alone can lead to problems. Or.. if you have ever taken a gut shot with ply during a kick-back as some of us have.. you know stock can be hurled in any dirction if it rides up and over the blade as you have no crown gaurd on that saw nor feather left to help counter the un-predictalbe movement it can take.

Good luck and IMO.. reconsider how you approach the task.

Sarge..

[Rod Sheridan]

It may be my poor old eyesight, however was that a sheet of melamine coated particle board you were cutting?

You need a blade designed for the material you are cutting. Go to your local saw shop if there's one near your town. Industrial blades are better quality and less money than consumer branded blades.

Put a splitter on the saw.

Keep your kids out of the shop.

If you're going to use a table saw to process entire sheets, buy a cabinet saw, fit it with outfeed and infeed tables, or buy a slider, they're meant for panel processing.

Once you get a better saw, and the correct blade, it may still be easier to rough out pieces using a circular saw.

Unless I really need to run a full sheet through my saw, I break it down at the sawmill. The guys are always happy to rip a sheet in half for me, or cross cut it in half, or whatever I need to give me some pieces just larger than finished dimensions.

I'm too old to be horsing a full sheet around, at some point smarts have to take over from testosterone.

Regards, Rod.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Why are you dead set on using your table saw? It's too small. Get a good guide and use your circular saw, with a good blade.

To be really really redundant, toss that POS blade. ANY carbide is better.

Kids should be away. I have a girl that plays with EVERYTHING in my garage. Need to keep an eye on them. Like to turn switches.....