60 deg V tool

[Thomas Knapp]

I have a 60 degree V tool. The sides of the inside do not come to a sharp V. There is a little flat in the bottom. I would like to reshape the inside to a sharp V. Then I when I sharpen the outside I could keep the sharp v shape. I just bought some 1000 grit waterstone carving slips. I have never used any water stones. Do these slips need to be soaked or will just a squirt of water do? Will they work for making the v meet at a sharp angle, or should I take a different approach? I have Syderco ceramic files and strops to polish the inside once it is reshaped. This V tool is from a Marples carving set that is about 30 years old. Does anyone have any experience with Marpels carving tools from that era ? They don't seem to be as nicely finished as the Pfeil tools are. They do take a good edge though and seem to hold it a reasonable amount of time. I guess that is what counts.
Thanks
Tom

[mike holden]

Thomas,
V-tools should have a very small radius at the bottom.
Chris Pye has a good set of instructions on sharpening v-tools on his website.
Mike

[David Keller NC]

Thomas - What Mike said; v-tools aren't meant to have a sharp corner at the bottom on either the inside or outside.

Your waterstone slips can be used without soaking, but I'd still recommend it (about 5 minutes will do). Having a little extra water load in the stones will keep the surface from glazing as fast.

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

George,
I feel like an student giving instructions to a master after seeing your metalwork skills but here it goes.
The slight radius in a 60 degree tool actually allows the tool to be sharpened at the bottom. If the two flat sides came together in a perfect V there be too much mass to sharpen into an edge on the inside of the tool. Granted you could make a sharp point but the cutting edge at the intersection would have no inside clearance.
Waterstones need to be soaked if they are coarser grits like 220 up to 4000. The fine grits are so dense you can merely spray them.
If you are like me, I am always in search of the perfect technique to sharpen the V tool. They are tremendously useful and get difficult to grind, especially in the small sizes with high degree V shape. I rely on getting close to not having a reflection of light on the edge then switch to very fine stones and slowly finish the grind down to an edge that reflects no light and doesn't create the dreaded indent on one side of the V. I even mark the outside edges with a black marker to be sure I have the correct angle against the stones. Then I buff the heck out of them. I keep one wheel that has lots of loose cotton to buff the onside. After all, the threads of the wheel are very small and reach deep into the V. I buff the outside on a hard cotton wheel. Yes, I know it prematurely rounds the corners but I don't usually cut the full depth of the tool so I am willing to sacrifice the upper corners to have a really sharp V.
I am currently carving a rope edge around a dining table and use the 60 degree to shape the V between the rope strands. The table is 10' long and 50" wide. I figure there are about 700 repeats so my 60 degree and my 45 degree are both getting a work out.
fmr

[Thomas Knapp]

I actually almost had it right. I used to carve and took some lessons 30 years ago. Maybe I retained more than I thought. The Chris Pye information was very helpful. I need to narrow the keel a little. I used a 25 deg. bevel angle. I may lower that down to 20 Deg. I just chased the light from the edge when I sharpened and it came close to his recommendations. When I was taught to sharpen carving tools, I was taught to round the heel of the bevel. The theory was the angle at the heel would scuff the wood unless softened. The other theory was rounding the bevel helped with scooping type cuts. Do you make your bevels convex? I sharpen my tools at a consistant angle and then round the bevel but not quite to the cutting edge.
Tom

[mike holden]

Thomas,
Yes, my bevels end up convex, although I have never tried to make them so.
I sharpen by hand, no jigs, on oil stones for my carving chisels. (my plane blades and bench chisels I do with a granite plate and sandpaper - why the difference? Habit.)
Mike

[Thomas Knapp]

Thomas,
Yes, my bevels end up convex, although I have never tried to make them so.
I sharpen by hand, no jigs, on oil stones for my carving chisels. (my plane blades and bench chisels I do with a granite plate and sandpaper - why the difference? Habit.)
Mike

Habit is why we do a lot of things and part of the reason I haven't used waterstones. I've been a carpenter for 35 years. I used an India stone. followed by an Arkansas stone, for my blades until about 10 years ago. Then I tried a diamond stone and got hooked. Another carpenter, that was my partner at work, had a white ceramic stone. We would sharpen with my diamond and then hone with his ceramic. So I bought a ceramic stone and he bought a diamond stone. Then we both had the complete set up. I also carried a leather strop fastened to wood backing for the final polish. I just couldn't see investing in waterstones when I had a system that worked. I also didn't want to worry about having to flatten the water stones on a regular basis. Maybe the water stones would save me a little time, but I can't see investing a lot of money in them to save a little time. I did just start using sharpening guides after freehand sharpeniing for all these years, so I am still trainable. I have to say I am impressed with using the guides.

[Jeff Riddle]

I agree with Mr. Knapp. It is rare for me to put any of my knives and carving tools to a stone other than for shaping. The edges of my tools are very clean and extremely sharp as all are polished on a strop including the kitchen knives. Just ask anyone who has used a knife in my house. OOPS! Got another one. V tools are very hard to master for some and others seem to have natural born talent for sharpening. I am one of those who spent a lot of time learning the hard way but practice makes perfect. I do mostly caricature carvings and some relief. Although I have been carving for more than 15 years, I still feel I have so much to learn.