Beginner Carving Tools: Suggestions for a Cheap / Decent set?

[Robert Rozaieski]

You've already gotten some excellent advise so I'm not going to rehash any of it but I will offer one additional bit of advise. Pick a project FIRST. The tools required are really dependant on what you are going to carve. I understand from your previous posts above that you are looking to do relief carving for furniture. Great! Now be more specific . What exactly will be your first carving?

Here's the thing. You won't need every tool for every carving project. Additionally, some carvings require more tools than others. For example, if you want to carve a simple convex lobed applied shell like the one Mike did for his first shell tutorial, you'll need considerably fewer tools than if you want to do a more complex convex/concave curved lobed shell. The reason is access. Concave shapes always require more and different sweeps to do than convex shapes because you need sweeps to match the concave areas of the carving. As a matter of fact, you can carve a straight, convex lobed fan or shell with little more than a parting tool and a bench chisel. Straight chisels can be used bevel down to do a lot of convex work.

Carving a B&C foot actually requires only a couple of tools. I did my first one with little more than a couple bench chisels, a 1/2" #3, a 1/2" #5 and a 1/4" #7 (English system numbering).

So pick a specific carving you would like to do and then come back here and let us know what you chose and we should be able to give you a better idea of actual tools to get so you don't waste money on tools you don't need. Then for your next carving, you can add the additional tools you don't yet have.

As others have said, pre-assembled sets are really not a good buy as you will be paying upwards of $30 per tool for a lot of tools you may never use. Instead, make your own set as you go along. If you have $200 to spend, get the 4 or 5 tools needed for a specific carving, a slip stone or two, some honing oil, a strop, some green honing compund, maybe a DVD and some wood to practice on. That should be a good starter set .

[george wilson]

If anyone cares to do it,smaller carving tools are very easy to make.I've made dozens of special shapes,sets of fishtail gouges,etc. All you need is 1/4" square W1,or O1 steel bars,something to beat on
(not even an anvil is necessary),a hammer,and Mapp gas torch,a bench grinder,some files,and a quench-gallon of water or cooking oil.

First,hammer the ends out flat when orange hot. Bend the milder curves by getting the thin,fan shaped ends orange hot,then,take a bar of steel that has the curve you want to impart. Hold the flat "fan" shaped chisel down on a block of hardwood,ignore the smoke,quickly lay the piece of bar steel over it,with the bar parallel to the shank of the chisel,and drive the side of the steel bar down against the chisel,forming it into a curved edge against the hardwood. Try end grain hardwood if you don't get the chisel (now gouge) you are making,to fully form against the steel bar. As a last resort,you can file a round groove into a piece of aluminum to form your gouge into.

For "V" tools,just file the V with a triangular file. Suggest a needle file to sharpen the bottom of the V. File,or grind,then file the outside shape of the 1/4",or 3/16" square steel bar down to fit the V shape you have filed.

When you have made the business end of the carving tool,heat up the tang end,and hammer it into a square,tapered tang,or just grind it into shape. MSC sells cold drawn W1 square bars,annealed. The 1/4" square X 36" bars are less than $5.00 each.

If you aren't going to hammer drive these carving tools,no bolster is needed. The bolster is really the hard part. You can't forge the bolster out from the body of the chisel without advanced blacksmithing skills,and some special dies that you also made. However,you can take a thick steel washer,and file a square hole in it that fits over the tapered tang,but whose square hole is too small to go completely over the tang,and down the shank of the tool. You could make a better looking bolster by sawing off 1/8" thick discs from a 1/2" round bar of steel,drilling a hole,and filing the bolster octagonal after it is pressed home,perhaps over a dummy tang. The bolster doesn't need to be attached to the tang. When the tang is pressed into the handle,the bolster will be trapped. Drill a hole in the handle. Heat up a tang pattern,and burn the hole into a square,tapered hole. Leave room enough in the hole to have your real tang seat down tight when you drive it home.

Blue Spruce chisels do not seem to have a bolster. He apparently grinds the tang down,leaving a flat ,stepped out area where the blade butts against the handle,and traps the end of the chisel inside a tightly fitted ferrule.

Hardening is simple enough: Heat the tool on it's last few inches on the business end,to an orange color. Don't over do this,or you will blister the steel,and ruin it. Then,quench the tool in cool but not ice cold water (or oil if using 01).

Check the hardness with a smooth cut mill file. If it skates over the tool's hardened area,the tool is fully hardened. If not,re heat better,and quench. Then,polish off the surface of the tool,and VERY slowly,with brushing passes of the torch,a few inches back from the cutting end of the tool,watch as the tempering colors form: yellow,light brown,medium brown,purple,blue,then gray. STOP at medium brown. Aboue that,the tool gets too soft. At gray it is annealed dead soft. Quench again when the medium brown color reaches the cutting edge of your gouge. If you get it too soft,start all over with rehardening.

Grinnling Gibbons made his special carving tools as needed. An advanced carver really needs to be able to do this also,though these days they seldom do.

If you make your own tools correctly,you will have complete quality control from the steel selection,and will make tools as good or better than you can buy,because you won't be starting out with cheaper grades of lower carbon steel to save money,as some manufacturers are wont to do.

[Tom Overthere]

Pick a project FIRST. The tools required are really dependant on what you are going to carve...then come back here and let us know what you chose and we should be able to give you a better idea of actual tools to get so you don't waste money on tools you don't need. Then for your next carving, you can add the additional tools you don't yet have.

If you have $200 to spend, get the 4 or 5 tools needed for a specific carving, a slip stone or two, some honing oil, a strop, some green honing compund, maybe a DVD and some wood to practice on. That should be a good starter set .

EXCELLENT ADVICE. I'm going to a local woodworking show today and will look for "first project" ideas.

[Tom Overthere]

Chris Pye's website...has a TON of downloadable PDF files including information on how to buy tools, which ones are good, and even a bit about what tools to start with.
--------------------------------------
”If someone could begin carving with only 3 carving tools, what
ones would you recommend? Say they have a good detail knife and they don’t want to buy a set [yet]:

1. 3/8” x #39 (60°) V tool
2. 1/2” x #3 straight gouge (You can do a fantastic amount of decorative work and relief carving with these two).
3. 1/2” x #7 straight gouge (A little over a medium sweep for some work in the round.)
--------------------------------------
Pye's PDF files ("Slipstones") are very good and informative.

THANKS(!) CARLOS That's a BIG help. I'm going to a local woodworking show today. If they're selling individual carving tools, I'll have this list in my hand.

[Tom Overthere]

If anyone cares to do it,smaller carving tools are very easy to make.

George, you're KILLING me .

You left out a couple of steps: First I'm building a forge so I can pour the molten steel.
THEN I'll develop the blacksmithing and tool-making skills. Just kidding.

I think your idea/techniques are very interesting and "do-able" for some SMC members. I suggest you copy your comments into a new thread, specific to that topic - and title it accordingly so members can find it.

[David Keller NC]

Tom - Yet another opinion, take it or leave it. Like you, my primary interest is in carving for furniture, which is typically relief and molding carvings, and the obligatory ball and claw foot. I've been carving for about 3-4 years, the last 2 under the tutelage of a 30 year local expert.

The advice about not buying tools sets is spot-on. If you're not doing letter carving, you will never use a flat chisel. If you're going to use a router (either a router plane or an electric one) to lower the ground on a relief carving, it's unlikely you will ever use a #9 or a #11.

As to flex-cuts, this what I'd say - Flexcut makes two styles of tools, the regular, flexible shaft palm tools, and the sturdier (and non-flex) mallet tools. I had a set of both which I sold because I have Pfiel duplicates. I have (and use) flex-cut knives. In my opinion, the steel in a Flex-cut is absolutely superior - it will take an edge and hold it better than any other carving tool I have, including the legendary (and antique) Addis tools. Whether you want to use Flex-cut probably depends on the opportunity that comes your way - I sold both the palm tool set and the mallet tool set for a total of $125, which is about $10 a tool.

I would advise against the inter-changeable handle Flex-cut sets. While it is a way to reduce the cost per tool, it's not a workable solution for efficient carving - you need to have the tools you need for a project in front of you and be able to minimize the time necessary to alternate tools. Having to interchange the tools in the handle would be an enormous PITA, in my opinion.

Finally, as to a basic tools set - you can buy a few tools with absolute confidence that you will need them, and build on it as you need the tools:

A 60 degree v-tool, perhaps a 12mm width - a v-tool is necessary for any sort of carving except perhaps whittling walking sticks.

A medium width #2 (Pfiel numbering system) - about 16 mm is about right. You will need this tool to get a good, reasonably level ground in a relief carving.

A medium width #3 - a 12mm, 14mm, or 16mm is a good start. This is the tool used to form the ball on a ball & claw foot.

A medium width #5 - used to round the toes on B&C foot, used to round the convex lobes on a larger shell, and also a very typical curve that you need to stab in relief carving, as well as a good sweep for egg and dart molding.

A medium width #7 - used to round the talons on the toes on a B&C foot, forming the convex lobes on a small shell, and also a typical curve in relief carving.

A smaller width #8 (perhaps a 10mm) - used a lot in elements of certain types of carved molding, such as "pea" molding.

A medium #9 (14mm) - used to quickly lower the ground on a relief carving (#9s and #11s are sometimes called "quick gouges" because of this use). You may not need this tool much if you're going to use a router.

A very small #11 (2mm or 3mm) - this tool is sometimes called a "veiner", and was traditionally used for the leaf veins in acanthus leaf carvings. You can also use your v-tool for this purpose, though a small #11 works a bit better in reversing-grain situations.

This is a basic tool kit - you will probably find later on that while you can use a straight carving gouge upside-down (with a back-bevel) to round convex elements, it's more efficient to have a couple of back-bent carving gouges. And as your skills grow, you will find the need for many other, more specialized tools. Most of us that have been doing this a while have a couple of hundred such tools, but you definitely do not need such a set to get the job done - it's just easier and faster to have the specialized tools.

Finally, if you don't have a suitable source near you, you can order some really superb basswood from Heinicke wood products: http://www.heineckewood.com/. I cannot recommend them more highly - all basswood is not created equal when it comes to carving, and the slow-growth stuff they harvest and sell is really superior for the purpose.

[Carlos Alden]

Follow-up purchase report mandatory. Let us know what you get.

Carlos

[Tom Overthere]

David, thank you for your amazing post. Very helpful, but if you read my comments below, you'll see why I'm still not sure what to purchase (because carving involves such substantial investment in terms of money for tools, and time spent developing lasting technique based on whatever tools you commit to).


Well, I attended a local woodworkers' show today, armed with all my notes from you guys. I happened to find the liason for the local wood carvers' club, and asked him every question I could think of.

His advice is about 180-degrees from most of what I've learned here at SMC so far. There's a surprise...
Caveat: I realize he is just one man, with an opinion based on the extent of his own experiences, skills and applications. Seems like every question I ask online ends up in draw, with no clear course of action due to equally profound advice on both sides of every issue.

For hardwood relief carving related to furniture design, he advises purchasing individual Flexcut tools. His suggestion:

a) mount them in the big, two-handed reciprocating tool for a fast, controllable and less tiring alternative to mallet+chisel techniques.

b) mount them in the small-diameter one-handed recip tool handle for a fast, highly-controllable alternative to traditional fine gouge techniques.

When I asked him if sharpening Flexcut was any more difficult than sharpening traditional tools, he said, "I don't know because so far I haven't had to sharpen mine...at all."

I figured maybe he's just not using them much, but he said he uses them a lot - in basswood and cottonwood. So I'm thinking hardwoods are going to be much tougher in terms of wear and technique.

Anybody care to respond to this divergent (except for Terry's ) point of view?

PS The man with whom I spoke today does mostly 3D work - realistic fish, some characature, etc.

[Carlos Alden]

Tom:

I have heard that Flexcut tools are sharp and tend to hold their edge. I don't see this is a huge benefit, though. It's really nothing to hone up the edges of my tools once or twice as I'm carving.

I'm sure there are other benefits to using them, and maybe this is the way to go. I tend to go with tried-and-true approaches, though. Beware of any advice that tells you "THIS is the very best and only way..."

I think you should buy one of the carving gouges by Pfeil and a simliar size of the Flexcut, and try them each on different woods. Your hand will tell you within a short period of time which one you like. At worst you're out the price of one tool.

Carlos

[Tom Overthere]

Carlos ==

Thanks. The suggestion of buying "one of each" and doing my own comparison testing may be the ONLY way I can settle this without mortgaging the house to cover tooling and instructional costs...

David Keller mentioned the use of a router. I will likely develop my own "Half-Baked HYBRID" approach that uses a router to lower the ground, and more. Dare I say it in this forum? I'd like to build a CopyCarver-like pantograph device and use it to rough in subject matter. Then clean up and add detail with somekinda carving tools(!) and then maybe use the little Flexcut scrapers, which look like they'll save a lot of sanding (yes? no?).

I'm hoping to come up with a relatively fast-and-painless method, suitable for limited "production" of custom pieces. Sadly, tradition will likely take a hit...


QUESTION: Carlos, in an earlier post, you stated:
"I almost never use a mallet for my relief carving. I learned initial technique from a workshop with Nora Hall and she avoided using a mallet."

Is that in reference to hardwoods, or basswood and other lighter/softer carving woods?

[Carlos Alden]

I haven't carved much in hardwoods, just some mahogany, so I haven't needed to use the mallet much. I can see where that would make a difference and be needed.

I tried using a router to rough out some of my carvings - in fact I bought a PC just for that reason. However after using it ONCE I decided it wasn't worth it. Way too much noise, dust, confusion, danger. I can really lean into basswood with a deep gouge and get out as much as I need to.

But then again I've never done production work, and for something like a mantel carving with lots of repetition of design, and an initial shallow removal of background, it might be really helpful.

So, what else did you see at the show carving-wise?

Carlos

[Tom Overthere]

So, what else did you see at the show carving-wise?

Not much. It was a small show in a small town, held at a VFW hall. Someone put on a chainsaw sculpture demonstration, a cartoonish cowboy figure with facial detailing done ala mallet-and-chisel. There were a bunch o' chip carvers and cowboy characature carvers hawking their wares. The only carving-related discussion I took part in was with the man from the local wood carver's club. Kinda lucky I happened to run to him, that is IF HIS ADVICE TURNS OUT TO BE RIGHT...

I think I'm going to try your "buy one Flexcut blade and one qualilty traditional version of the same blade" idea. Whichever one plows deeper into my left hand gets the nod [black humor]

[David Keller NC]

Tom - The advice you were given at the local show is sort of outside the range of what we're discussing on this thread - it's the power-carving vs. hand-tool carving approach.

This is what I'd say about the two different approaches - both are valid, but for different things. Power tool carving (typically with high-speed rotating burrs, nor reciprocating carving tools) is a common method for wildlife and other "folk art" carvings. It's a very popular approach for decoy-carving, for example.

However, it's not used much for traditional furniture work. The reason is the surface left behind by the burrs, the lack of control with a reciprocating carver compared to mallet and chisel work, and the limitations of power tool devices as applied to typical period furniture ornamentation.

Generally, the surface left behind by high-speed rotating burrs is not acceptable for traditional furniture ornaments, so either the power tool needs to be followed up by hand-tool work, or the carving will need to be heavily sanded. Most period furniture ornamentation was designed to be carved very quickly and efficiently, so removing a ton of wood in a big hurry is not as useful as it is with completely "in the round" work like decoy carving. Moreover, heavy sanding really destroys the details that hand-tool work is designed to impart, and generally looks "wrong" when it's finished. That's not the same as using light sanding to finish a hand-tool carving, though there's still some debate as to whether a "gouge finish" is more appropriate.

As popular as the Carve Wright system may be, it's still very slow compared to someone with some skill and hand tools and a mallet. Just as one example, I can carve a rather complex-looking egg and dart molding with 3 tools and at the rate of about 3-4 feet in an hour, and that's ready for a finish in moderately hard woods like mahogany or cherry. The Carve Wright can rough out the same carving at about the same rate, but it will take a great deal of hand-tool work to completely finish the same molding, so it's just not as efficient.

The big factory CNC machines produce carvings that are a compromise for the machine - the tooling cannot control tear-out in wood nearly as well as an experienced carver with hand tools, so the depth and shape of the carving is changed to better fit the tooling's capability (and also to minimize the width and thickness of the required stock). Ball and Claw feet are rather obvious examples - one done by an experienced carver looks very different than one produced by Osbourne.

Finally, based on what you've stated is your interest, your least expensive route to your goal in terms of tools is the hand-tool approach. Buying the limited set that I and others have suggested will allow you to carve a great deal of traditional furniture ornamentation and molding. Part of the reason that I and others have several hundred different carving tools is that many of these tools are designed for many different niche aspects of carving.

For example, I have about 12 flat chisels, skew chisels, fishtail chisels and shallow gouges that only get used for letter carving - they aren't useful for anything else. I have about 5 tools that are specifically useful for bowl carving - they don't get used for furniture carvings. A group of my tools have been specifically modified for extremely fast carving of moldings - I use them for nothing else.

You get the idea - you can carve a rather vast array of moldings, shells, acanthus leaves, cartouches, etc... with just a few tools.

[Tom Overthere]

David ==

Thank you (and ALL of you) for giving me so much helpful advice. It's absolutely clear that you are giving me the GIFT of your own experience - truly a valuable gift.

I understand and accept your comparison of 'proper tooling and skills' overcoming the routered/pantographed approach in terms of finished product quality and perhaps even in terms of hours spent. Per your comments and those of both Mikes, Carlos et al, clearly there is no "one true answer".

I don't intend to recreate traditional motifs exactly, and am not really interested in producing period pieces (no idea what my early experiments will look like ). In light of that, my choice of tools and methods may not be as limited as are the choices for those interested in classic feature carving only.

If I really can combine the use of a power tool for roughing out, with relatively few hand tools for finish carving/scraping (like you, I'm no fan of sanding, either as a process or a finished surface) - then I will indeed forego the CopyCarver build and focus on hand-eye processes - with the sincere hope that "hand" and "eye" never meet while learning the rudiments of carving...

[george wilson]

Tom,there is no melting of steel That might have been a joke,I guess. the blacksmithing skills are very minimal. All you have to do is hammer the end of a square bar flat,and whack a round rod into it to form the arc. Really,anyone could do it,especially if money is an issue. Even if you buy tools,try it sometime.