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Thread: Beginner Carving Tools: Suggestions for a Cheap / Decent set?

  1. #1

    Beginner Carving Tools: Suggestions for a Cheap / Decent set?

    My first attempts will be relief carving in whatever hardwood is at hand.

    I'm really not knowledgeable - not even sure whether such work is done using chisels/gouges and a mallet or knives and hand pressure as in chip carving.

    I need advice on where to find a good deal on a set that will get me started. My budget is small, but I know the value of having good tools (in terms of work product and safety), so please make recommedations with that in mind - er, emphasis on the budget aspect.

    I'm putting together a Grizzly order and can add a carving set to that if you guys think any of the Griz sets are suitable. Here are links to the two pages of carving products on the Grizzly site.

    a) Grizzly Carving Tools page 1
    b) Grizzly Carving Tools page 2

    And if there are any must-have accessories that should be purchased now (specific sharpening stones, etc), please let me know

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Marietta GA
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    1,120

    Flexcut

    I recommend you look into flexcut. These are high quality tools and you can get a nice set for well under $200.

    Also, there are sets of just blades which lowers the price per chisel. The handles can be bought at places like Harbor Freight and Northern Tool for about $2 a pop.

    What ever you buy, do not buy cheap tools. You will get more use out of one good quality chisel than a dozen cheapies.

    Good luck and keep us posted!

  3. #3
    If at all possible, take a course on carving before you invest a lot of money in tools. Carving is one of those skills best learned one-on-one.

    The tools you'll need will depend upon what you're going to carve.

    This is just personal preference, but I'm not a big fan of Flexcut tools. If you want to try them out, get a couple and see if you like them before committing to a big lot of them. And compare them to regular carving tools (like Pfeil, Ashely Iles, etc.) - that is, use both before you decide which to buy a lot of.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  4. #4
    Thanks for the (diameterically opposed ) advice, guys.

    I have little chance of taking a course locally, and will more likely learn online or via books (probably similar to reading a book on how to play the violin!)

    Since nobody commented on the Grizzly product line in general. I'll ask a specific question. What do you think of this, as a decent starter set? http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-p...isel-Set/H2930

    Is such a set designed for use with a mallet, or are they intended for hand pressure guiding the tool through the work surface?

    FYI - I found several user comments on Amazon.com regarding this set. Four stars out of five, seven reviews. Negative comments involved cheap plastic handles and too steep a sharpened angle. What say you guys? Are they good enough for a starter set, or is "middling quality" likely to just get in my way?
    Last edited by Tom Overthere; 02-18-2009 at 1:55 PM.

  5. #5
    Let me first comment that you should select the wood to carve because it will make a big difference in your carving (don't try to carve any wood in the beginning). I would suggest basswood (good basswood) or Honduras mahogany because they both are straight grain, cut well, and hold detail.

    With the Grizzly set, I think you'll get some tools that you'll never, or rarely, use.

    My recommendations would be (given in the Pfeil system): These are all standard, straight tools - no fishtails, forward or back bent, or anything else. Any of those can come later.

    12/6 V-tool (this is the most important tool)

    2/5
    2/12 (or a 2/8)
    2/19

    3/5
    3/20 (you could go narrower here, if you want, maybe a 3/12 or 3/16)

    5/5
    5/10

    7/14

    9/10

    But a lot depends on what you're going to carve. That's ten tools and will set you back about $250 - $300. And that's only the beginning.

    Mike

    [Oh, I have some carving tutorials on my web site and have posted some on the forum here. See the sticky at the top of the this forum.]
    Last edited by Mike Henderson; 02-18-2009 at 2:00 PM.
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  6. #6
    Thanks for the details, Mike. FWIW, I went back and edited my previous post, apparently while you were typing yours. Despite that, your comments DO answer my revised questions. Thanks.

    Complications: I don't intend to carve for the sake of carving. I want to do relief carving (typical/traditional) to embellish furniture and architectural installations, such as a mantle piece. While I surely will attempt to find the basswood or Honduran mahogany you suggest for practice, ultimately I'll have to learn to carve in any hardwood used for a project.

    Now that I've added those qualifiers, does your advice as posted above change in any way?

    Thanks

    P.S. I went through one of your tutorials here, about a week ago. It was very helpful, and is a real service to "the SMC community". Thanks, and I'll go bookmark your website next.
    Last edited by Tom Overthere; 02-18-2009 at 2:22 PM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Beadle View Post
    I recommend you look into flexcut. These are high quality tools and you can get a nice set for well under $200.

    The handles can be bought at places like Harbor Freight and Northern Tool for about $2 a pop.

    Do not buy cheap tools.
    Thanks, Terry. I visited the Flexcut website per your suggestion. 'Looks like a viable approach, and I DO have a Harbor Freight tool outlet nearby...

    Can you tell me specifically what YOU like about the Flexcut tools? Mike says he's not a fan of them, so I'd like to hear the specifics of Mike's dissatisfaction as well.

    I don't want to start an argument . I'd just like to hear the pros and cons, if possible. Thanks.

  8. #8

    Flexcut SK108 Set

    Terry and Mike ==

    I'm looking at the Flexcut SK108 Set for $179 which claims to cover all bases - mallet, palm and knife techniques.

    http://www.flexcut.com/products/cart...ategory_id=227

    It appears from the little I've read so far, that the Flexcut tools may involve different techniques than those employed in "traditional" carving. Is that right?

    I love tradition, but am always looking for "a better way".

    Please give me the benefit of your (perhaps opposing) insights.

    Thanks

  9. #9
    There's nothing wrong with Flexcut - I just prefer the traditional carving tools. Mostly I use Pfeil but have Ashley Iles, Henry Taylor, Stubi, and maybe a few others.

    If you like Flexcut and they work well for you, you should buy them. Check the resale value on eBay. If it's good, you can buy and if you decide you don't like them, you can resell and not lose much money.

    Most traditional carving tools bring good prices on eBay, almost retail price.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Clinton Township, MI, United States
    Posts
    1,554
    Tom,
    If you dont mind my jumping in here.
    I have about 6 flexcut gouges and over 30 of the regular gouges (Pfeil and Ashley Isles).
    My take on the flexcuts is that they are mostly for those that carve "in-the-round".
    I dont care for the flex in the shaft, and fail to see how it can help - it certainly makes hitting them with a mallet, or even just pushing with a forearm a dicey proposition. According to their brochures, the flex is supposed to help them act like a bent gouge when needed. I think I need a flexcut expert to show me how thats done, because I cant figure out how its done. On the other hand they come sharp, and I like the flexcut sharpening kit for all my gouges.
    As far as traditional goes, my favorites are Pfeils. They come sharp and with a well shaped bevel so they only need honing for a long time. The Ashley Isles are a close second, close enough that I will buy by price and availability.

    Not sure where you are geographically, but it sounds like you are interested in period furniture. If so, check out SAPFM dot org. There may be a member close to you that can help you get started.

    And I would second or third the suggestion NOT to get a set of tools. They almost never include all the ones you need for YOUR carving and a lot thay you will NEVER use. Not the most economical way to go.

    As to why I have the flexcuts - I bought a set to get started.

    Mike

    b&c01.JPG my ball & claw is the unfinished one, the other is Phil Lowe's

    Trifid02.JPG trifid foot in mahogany

    Trifid 01.JPG trifid foot in maple
    Last edited by mike holden; 02-18-2009 at 3:03 PM. Reason: .
    From the workshop under the staircase, Clinton Township, MI
    Semper Audere!

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by mike holden View Post
    Tom,
    If you dont mind my jumping in here.
    Glad to have your input, every input.

    Quote Originally Posted by mike holden View Post
    I dont care for the flex in the shaft, and fail to see how it can help - it certainly makes hitting them with a mallet, or even just pushing with a forearm a dicey proposition.
    Point taken, though I have no experience of my own.

    Quote Originally Posted by mike holden View Post
    As far as traditional goes, my favorites are Pfeils....Ashley Isles are a close second, close enough that I will buy by price and availability.
    Thanks for the recommendation.


    Quote Originally Posted by mike holden View Post
    ...check out SAPFM dot org. There may be a member close to you that can help you get started.
    Checked it out. Nobody in my area.

    Quote Originally Posted by mike holden View Post
    And I would second or third the suggestion NOT to get a set of tools...Not the most economical way to go.
    Point taken, but, despite Mike Henderson's helpful advice (see above) I won't really know which tools I need until I do some carving. Catch 22.

    Quote Originally Posted by mike holden View Post
    As to why I have the flexcuts - I bought a set to get started.
    HAHAHA! I hear you, loud and clear.


    WOW! on the photo examples. Thanks, Mike.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Olympia, WA
    Posts
    207
    Tom:

    I started carving for fun about 15 years ago. Got a cheapie set and they couldn't stay sharp. Got a better set but with palm handles and did better, and finally got a Pfeil set from Woodcraft. The difference in what I was able to do was night and day. I also found that the better, larger tools were easier to sharpen well and held an edge better. I tried the Flexcut tools a few times and found that I had ZERO control. I MUCH prefer the size and feel of traditional tools.

    I almost never use a mallet for my relief carving. I learned initial technique from a workshop with Nora Hall and she avoided using a mallet. By the way, her instructional DVDs are very good. She also has some good advice about starter sets and "essential" tools (as does Mike Henderson in his post.)

    So before I blather on even more than I have: don't waste time and money on cheap tools. If you're sure your going to do this and not "I'm trying a piece to see if I like it" then I'd just go for 6-8 essential tools by Pfeil, Ashley Iles, Henry Taylor, and get a book and DVD by Nora Hall and/or Chris Pye. Better yet, get a book first and read their advice about a starter set.

    Good luck. Photos of your first projects are mandatory in repayment for advice given.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos Alden View Post
    ...finally got a Pfeil set from Woodcraft. The difference in what I was able to do was night and day. ...I tried the Flexcut tools a few times and found that I had ZERO control. I MUCH prefer the size and feel of traditional tools.
    I found the Flexcut SK 108 Set locally, at a discount ($10 rebate), but it looks like I'll probably pass...

    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos Alden View Post
    I almost never use a mallet for my relief carving. I learned initial technique from a workshop with Nora Hall...her instructional DVDs are very good. She also has some good advice about starter sets and "essential" tools
    AHA! A starting place for good DVD instruction - to supplement/augment Mike Henderson's excellent tutorials. I find I learn really quickly when I can see (and hear) processes occur in motion - as in watching video instead of viewing a series of static pictures. Something about motion-based media helps (me) to "de-mystify" processes. Thank you for the names, Nora Hall and Chris Pye. I'll investigate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos Alden View Post
    ...don't waste time and money on cheap tools. #1 If you're sure your going to do this and not "I'm trying a piece to see if I like it" then I'd just go for 6-8 essential tools...and get a book and DVD by Nora Hall and/or Chris Pye. #2 Better yet, get a book first and read their advice about a starter set.
    Looks like I'll have to opt for #2 and purchase accordingly. CATCH 22 STATES: There's no way of knowing the answer #1 until I get some tools and dive in

    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos Alden View Post
    Photos of your first projects are mandatory in repayment for advice given.
    Oh, no! The cost of a digital camera is really gonna increase my carving tool budget.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Olympia, WA
    Posts
    207

    more info, Tom

    Tom:

    I've just spent some time further investigating Chris Pye's website and highly recommend you look at it for advice. He has a TON of downloadable PDF files including information on how to buy tools, which ones are good, and even a bit about what tools to start with:
    --------------------------------------
    ”If someone could begin carving with only 3 carving tools, what
    ones would you recommend?Say they have a good detail knife and they don’t want to buy a set
    until they know for sure that they will continue carving.

    Mmm, a tricky pop question!
    Ask me another day and I’ll give you a different 3 but, today, I’d go for:
    1. 3/8” x #39 (60°) V tool
    2. 1/2” x #3 straight gouge
    (You can do a fantastic amount of decorative work and relief carving with
    these two).
    3. 1/2” x #7 straight gouge
    (A little over a medium sweep for some work in the round.)
    --------------------------------------
    Anyway, the PDF files ("Slipstones") are very good and informative. Hope this helps.

    Carlos

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Marietta GA
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    Follow Up....

    Lots of good advise. Mike really knows his stuff so I'd follow his advice. Ease into it as it depends on what you want to carve. If you are going to carve in red oak vs mahogany, completely different chisels will probably be selected.

    Why do I like flex cut? They come sharpe and you can keep them that way easily. Also I do carve "in the round" but I also use the flex cut "in the flat". Lately I've been using them to shape the in fill pieces for my St. James Bay coffin smoother project. Cocobolo is really tough stuff and the flex cut blades are giving me good results. I've got a Phifel gouge which I like but it doesn't give me as good a results.

    I'm a bit mystified about other's comments about flex cut control. I guess I'm lucky to have found a way to push the blades semi-cross grained. I have a collection of "standard" gouges that can be used with a mallet and they give good service.

    Digital camera's are cheap! A picture is worth a thousand words and with a picture all the guys here can give much better guideance.

    It's very good advice to take a class. Nothing is better than some quality time with a pro. You learn so much that you don't realise until later. I also have Nora Roberts video's and she is a fabulous teacher. Her commentary whilst showing her technique is surpurb.

    Enjoy!

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