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Thread: Tile saws, what you can expect...

  1. #1
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    Tile saws, what you can expect...

    Even though I have not had much luck in creating a tile etching that looked even halfway decent to this point, my tool-itis got the better of me while driving home from our Valentine's Day dinner. My SO has been guilt-tripping me... I needed to create some etched granite tiles because she needed gifts. This necessitated smaller tiles, both for (cheaper) practice and because not everyone wants a huge 12x12 tile on their coffee table. So I added a wet tile saw to the tool collection, and here are my thoughts on the purchase and what to look for when you go to purchase your own... feel free to add your own.

    After a 10-15 minute discussion with a (surprisingly knowledgable) guy at Lowe's, I selected the QEP Professional Series Model #60083. It has a 7" blade, 1 HP motor, aiming laser, adjustable angle rip guide, and an adjustable angle aluminum table.

    Price: This particular unit was $200, and I have to say I expected the build quality to be better for the price. I specifically chose to stay away from the cheap <$100 models for this reason... I didn't expect the solid machines $5k buys, but I suppose I was expecting the quality often seen with units approaching $1k. My bad.

    Laser: I use it extensively on my wood saws for lining things up and trimming, so my expectations were this unit would be similar. I was annoyed to see it wasn't built into the table... it was built into the top of the finger guard It was powered by two button cells (not the 120V line supply), which means I'll have to replace them from time to time, and the plastic enclosure reminds of something I'd find on a child's toy from a dollar store. That said, I was quite surprised to find the laser lined up with the blade perfectly.

    Splash Guard: Even though it's made of a clear plastic, you still cannot see the actual cut under it due to the water stream, so it may as well be opaque. It does an admirable job at keeping water spray to a minimum, but you have to adjust it perfectly to the height of the material if you want to cut down on water spray without binding on the tile. There is still a fine mist that comes out of the front and back, but I'm thinking some flexible rubber hanging down 1/8" would kill that completely.

    The bracket did not line up with the cut in the tile, forcing me to flip the tile around. Unless you're perfect, this causes nubs of uneven tile where the two cuts meet up. I have since fixed that issue by Dremeling the table down where the bracket attaches, putting the bracket back in line with the blade.

    Table: The table itself is aluminum, but it's about as light (cheap) a piece as you can imagine (I miss the days of billet aluminum tables) while still being able to do the job at hand. No frills here, but as long as it works, I suppose I can't really complain. One half of the table can be angled by way of built-in plastic legs for mitered edges. This is where a more solid table would be more confidence-inspiring.

    "Wet" Saw: The "wet" portion of the saw amounts to a small tub of water the blade runs through (there is no active pumping of water). You fill it with about 1/2 gallon of water, and the overflow drain is literally a short tube with a hole at the top. You definitely want to put this someplace where water spillage won't affect anything, such as outside or on a concrete slab in the basement.

    Water Collection: As the water is pulled up by the blade (it's amazing how much water a spinning flat blade pulls up on it's side!), it rolls off of the tile and into channels in the table. These drain into a channel surrounding the entire table and back into the tub... my complaint here is the outside channel edge isn't high enough, and if the saw isn't perfectly level, the amount of water that ends up in that outer channel can start to leak over the edge and onto the floor instead of ending up back in the tub.

    Rip Guide: Made of aluminum that feels like metal-colored plastic, it does an okay job. It actually clamps to the edges of the table via a spring-loaded rod. The far end will shift about 1/16" after it has been clamped and sideways pressure is applied by the tile, but this can be taken into account when initially lining it up before clamping.

    Adjustable Angle Guide: Made of cheap plastic and only a few inches in length, the guide rides along the rip guide and allows for angled cutting. It probably works well with smaller, lighter tiles, but with heavy 12x12 granite and marble tiles it leaves a lot to be desired. I didn't check the angle, but my quick view of it set to zero appeared to still have a few degrees of angle to it (something to consider with bigger tiles). For the large and heavy tiles, I just use the rip guard directly.

    Power: 1 HP is not as much as you think when it comes to cutting tiles, so stay away from those 1/2 HP cheapies. With nothing more than a tile resting against it, my motor won't even budge if turned on from a standstill. Once running, it does a decent job at cutting with a constant push speed (I estimate I've been running at about 0.75"/second and haven't tried to go faster).

    GFCI Circuit: There isn't one. There's a resettable circuit breaker (I think), but mixing water and electricity scares the you know what out of me. Plug this into a GFCI circuit whenever possible to avoid electrocution.

    Material Size: With the rip guide in place, the largest piece that can be cut off is roughly 9" (though the piece being cut can be as large as you can handle). The cut off piece could be larger than 9" if you set up some form of external guide (or just winged it by eye), but this table is more than adequate for cutting down 12x12 tiles into 6x6 squares.



    Overall, I'm happy with the purchase in the sense that it does what I need without costing me an arm and a leg. If I believed my tile work would be significant I would have purchased a beefier machine with a more solid table and built-in features, but I didn't want to go too cheap and have a complete piece of junk. Knowing what I know now, I'd probably make the same decision, but it hasn't been without its cons. As always, YMMV...
    Last edited by Dan Hintz; 02-15-2009 at 2:14 PM.
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  2. #2
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    I know the borgs will cut lumber for you.....does anyone know if they will cut tile?
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  3. #3
    Another option is a ring saw. I've got an older model that is bare bones but it cuts curves and organic shapes out of tile quite easilly. It has a rip guide for straight cuts that works OK. Something to look into.
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    I design, engineer and program all sorts of things.

    Oh, and I use Adobe Illustrator with an Epilog Mini.

  4. #4
    I am an old tilesetter, did it for over 20 years. I have been playing with the lasers for about 9 years now. I have a couple wet saws that I paid about $1500 for, they cut tile and granite real good if you want straight cuts. If you want to cut ovals or something like that you need a ring saw. You can buy them on line for about $300. If you are buying something for your laser, then buy a ring saw, you will be able to do a lot more.
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  5. #5
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    Oh, sure... now you guys post about ring saws!

    Never heard of them, but looks like a very interesting design. Are they designed to work without water on all materials, or do they also offer a wet version? I don't want to get into non-square cuts for the time being, but it's nice to know my options if/when that time comes.
    Hi-Tec Designs, LLC -- Owner (and self-proclaimed LED guru )

    Trotec 80W Speedy 300 laser w/everything
    CAMaster Stinger CNC (25" x 36" x 5")
    USCutter 24" LaserPoint Vinyl Cutter
    Jet JWBS-18QT-3 18", 3HP bandsaw
    Robust Beauty 25"x52" wood lathe w/everything
    Jet BD-920W 9"x20" metal lathe
    Delta 18-900L 18" drill press

    Flame Polisher (ooooh, FIRE!)
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  6. #6
    My unit has a reservoir for water at the bottom. The ring rotates through it. The cool thing about ring saws is you can use them freehand like a scroll saw. The blade does not rotate very fast and touching it while it's spinning isn't really an issue. They are used quite a bit by stained glass designers and cut most hard substrates a typical tile saw would be used for.
    I design, engineer and program all sorts of things.

    Oh, and I use Adobe Illustrator with an Epilog Mini.

  7. #7
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    Sheesh, now I want to dump my blade saw and pick up a ring version...
    Hi-Tec Designs, LLC -- Owner (and self-proclaimed LED guru )

    Trotec 80W Speedy 300 laser w/everything
    CAMaster Stinger CNC (25" x 36" x 5")
    USCutter 24" LaserPoint Vinyl Cutter
    Jet JWBS-18QT-3 18", 3HP bandsaw
    Robust Beauty 25"x52" wood lathe w/everything
    Jet BD-920W 9"x20" metal lathe
    Delta 18-900L 18" drill press

    Flame Polisher (ooooh, FIRE!)
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  8. #8
    They aren't as cheap as the unit you purchased and to be honest I don't know why. There isn't much to them.

    Here is a company that makes them:
    http://www.geminisaw.com/

    Cheers,
    Doug
    I design, engineer and program all sorts of things.

    Oh, and I use Adobe Illustrator with an Epilog Mini.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Griffith View Post
    They aren't as cheap as the unit you purchased and to be honest I don't know why. There isn't much to them.

    Here is a company that makes them:
    http://www.geminisaw.com/
    I briefly saw mention of a design patent... if that's the case, Gemini may be the only company who can manufacture them, which would explain the price.
    Hi-Tec Designs, LLC -- Owner (and self-proclaimed LED guru )

    Trotec 80W Speedy 300 laser w/everything
    CAMaster Stinger CNC (25" x 36" x 5")
    USCutter 24" LaserPoint Vinyl Cutter
    Jet JWBS-18QT-3 18", 3HP bandsaw
    Robust Beauty 25"x52" wood lathe w/everything
    Jet BD-920W 9"x20" metal lathe
    Delta 18-900L 18" drill press

    Flame Polisher (ooooh, FIRE!)
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  10. #10
    Could be. The one I have is made by MKDiamond but is not sold by them anymore and now appears to be a Gemini product. A company I work with used to vacuum form the bodies for MK and I haven't seen the job run quite a while.
    I design, engineer and program all sorts of things.

    Oh, and I use Adobe Illustrator with an Epilog Mini.

  11. #11
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    Oh, I did forget to mention... coinciding with my saw purchase, I think I'm finally getting a handle on pre-processing images for granite. No more 12x12 tiles with multiple images scattered across it for tests. I cut out four 6x6, one ended up with an overexposed image, but the second had a fairly nice looking pic. Some images just need to be masked and modified in different amounts (I was trying to be lazy and adjust the entire picture as one entity). Now I just need to tweak my vignetting skills in Paint.NET.
    Hi-Tec Designs, LLC -- Owner (and self-proclaimed LED guru )

    Trotec 80W Speedy 300 laser w/everything
    CAMaster Stinger CNC (25" x 36" x 5")
    USCutter 24" LaserPoint Vinyl Cutter
    Jet JWBS-18QT-3 18", 3HP bandsaw
    Robust Beauty 25"x52" wood lathe w/everything
    Jet BD-920W 9"x20" metal lathe
    Delta 18-900L 18" drill press

    Flame Polisher (ooooh, FIRE!)
    Freeware: InkScape, Paint.NET, DoubleCAD XT
    Paidware: Wacom Intuos4 (Large), CorelDRAW X5

  12. #12
    You really are into the open source/freeware graphics programs aren't you!
    I design, engineer and program all sorts of things.

    Oh, and I use Adobe Illustrator with an Epilog Mini.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Griffith View Post
    You really are into the open source/freeware graphics programs aren't you!
    Can you blame me? They cost me nothing more than some bandwidth a few times a year to get the latest version, bug tracking/fixing is done by people motivated by a love of programming and not "make enough money to keep the bloated corporation afloat", and the programs are often just as (if not more) powerful than costly programs.

    You want auto-vignetting tools? Paint.NET has a plug-in for it. Want an adjustable halftone tool? Paint.NET has a plug-in for it. Want a custom filter? Someone writing plug-ins for Paint.NET would probably be willing to write it for you. It's all free and often updated every few weeks/months with new features and bug fixes. Tell me Adobe, Corel, or any other company out there will do the same.

    Yes, sometimes it means a bit more work on my part (such as requiring a few extra programs on hand for file format conversion), but the pros far outweigh the cons, IMHO. Even the file format conversion issue may be a non-issue soon enough as my favorite vector program (InkScape) allows for seamless acceptance of CDR files... right now you have to download a few extra plug-ins and install them in an odd way.
    Hi-Tec Designs, LLC -- Owner (and self-proclaimed LED guru )

    Trotec 80W Speedy 300 laser w/everything
    CAMaster Stinger CNC (25" x 36" x 5")
    USCutter 24" LaserPoint Vinyl Cutter
    Jet JWBS-18QT-3 18", 3HP bandsaw
    Robust Beauty 25"x52" wood lathe w/everything
    Jet BD-920W 9"x20" metal lathe
    Delta 18-900L 18" drill press

    Flame Polisher (ooooh, FIRE!)
    Freeware: InkScape, Paint.NET, DoubleCAD XT
    Paidware: Wacom Intuos4 (Large), CorelDRAW X5

  14. #14
    I'm a "sucker" for the expensive stuff. It could be because I spent many years learning on someone elses dime and can't just start over again on my own dime. I know the bloatware all too well. Plus, I honestly think you can't beat Adobe products. They've been around a long time and have evolved their products well.

    I don't see Unix or Gimp in your toolbox. That's even a little more hardcore.
    I design, engineer and program all sorts of things.

    Oh, and I use Adobe Illustrator with an Epilog Mini.

  15. #15
    There are a couple others that make the saws. I will try to post an address tomorrow for a cheap place to buy the ring saws. I have it on a differant computer than I am using right now.
    Vytek 4' x 8', 35 watt. Epilog Legend 100 watt, Graphtec plotter. Corel x-4, Autocad 2008, Flexi sign, Adobe Illustrator, Photo Impact X-3 and half a dozen more.

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