Laser vs CNC router

[Doug Griffith]

I hold almost everything down with vacuum. And just like Rodne, I use an overlaying sheet of MDF with holes and slots milled into it. I also add slots with 1/8" square neoprene gasket material to aid in sealing off the vacuum. For acrylic jobs, I rough cut .005 outside the part and .030 from cutting all the way through. I then run a finish cut .005 in and all the way through. This is done to keep as much surface area as possible while removing large amounts of material. It helps prevent chatter that can happen due to the lateral force of the cutter moving the sheet around. And I use a 30hp vacuum pump that costs more than most lasers.

One of the best "features" of a laser is not having to worry about any of the above.

[Marc Myer]

There's the rub.
It's been a few years since I had my two small CNC mills, and my experience back then was good, but not great. I couldn't afford to buy those really expensive programs (my first CNC was a Roland and it had its own software). I loved doing the work; the software and G-code were difficult for my right-oriented brain. And holding down a 1/8" piece of aluminum was a challenge. I'd like to try again sometime. It was always very difficult to get a good smooth cut for me, as much of my work requires a very smooth finish for chroming. The laser gets me the smooth cuts and tight angles I wanted, at the cost of beveled edges.
But is there software now that has ascended to a good level of simplicity (idiot-friendliness) and effectiveness without spending thousands?

[Dave Johnson29]

But is there software now that has ascended to a good level of simplicity (idiot-friendliness) and effectiveness without spending thousands?

Marc,

There's the rub. "without spending thousands," I don't think so.

In my machining experience, smooth finish with virtually no burr is always a function of speed, feed, appropriate coolant and cutter quality.

Holding down 1/8" aluminum, not a problem with adhesives. Hot melt, UV cure etc etc.

[Scott Shepherd]

I think we're talking about 2 different things. My experience is exclusively with metal. I've seen a small end mill move a big part many times. I'm sure the plastics and wood world is a different animal.

I'm still paranoid, especially when you drop a $1000 piece of material on the table and hit go

[Doug Griffith]

I've seen a small end mill move a big part many times. I'm sure the plastics and wood world is a different animal.

Plastic moves too. Especially if the item doesn't have much surface area. Larger signs, which most people here do, probably don't have the same problem.

There's the rub. "without spending thousands," I don't think so.

I'd say around $2300 will get you a descent software package capable of doing signs on a CNC. Something like Aspire plus Cut2d plus Cut3d. Any less than that and you'll be wishing you had more.

[Marc Myer]

What about a mini-mill? My CNC work is primarily very precise, small automobile emblems. Holding down aluminum securely is a big issue, as is the software. The software you referred to--would your comments still apply given these parameters?

[Doug Griffith]

What about a mini-mill? My CNC work is primarily very precise, small automobile emblems. Holding down aluminum securely is a big issue, as is the software. The software you referred to--would your comments still apply given these parameters?

I've got a Taig just for that purpose but have yet to use it. For the type of work you do, I think the software solution I mentioned would be perfect.

[Dave Johnson29]

What about a mini-mill? My CNC work is primarily very precise, small automobile emblems.

Hi Marc,

You would have to be more specific in what you need to do. A small benchtop CNC-mill like the Sherline etc will be fine for small part machining. In fact back in 1994 that's what I used in my bedroom to get started in business. I have moved a long way from that with one of my CNC mills weighing in at 2-1/2 tons.

Way abck then, I was doing complex machining of 1/16" thick aluminum and it was quite adequate but slow. However if you need to do engraving type stuff the spindle speed is waaaaay too slow for that. You would need to adapt a high speed spindle (20,00rpm and up) for engraving type work otherwise you will be forever hand finishing burrs etc.

Horses for courses.

[bob pfohler]

Well Doug you see a lot of varying opinions. There are some that prefer the CNC and some the laser.

I started with the CNC and after talking to Ed Lang about laser engravers I took the dive. I wasn't very familiar with CAD but I was able to catch on pretty quick. Corel can export in DXF and ShopBot has made the CAM software easy to operate. If you have any knowledge of a CAD program like Corel or TurboCad you can easily create files for either machine.

I love that I have the versatility of both and they are a great compliment to each other and we do an equal amount of work on both. I often cutout sign blanks in material like Corian or Western Red Cedar on the CNC and take them to the laser for engraving.

What the hell, life is short. BUY BOTH!

[Larry Bratton]

Well Doug you see a lot of varying opinions. There are some that prefer the CNC and some the laser.

I started with the CNC and after talking to Ed Lang about laser engravers I took the dive. I wasn't very familiar with CAD but I was able to catch on pretty quick. Corel can export in DXF and ShopBot has made the CAM software easy to operate. If you have any knowledge of a CAD program like Corel or TurboCad you can easily create files for either machine.

I love that I have the versatility of both and they are a great compliment to each other and we do an equal amount of work on both. I often cutout sign blanks in material like Corian or Western Red Cedar on the CNC and take them to the laser for engraving.

What the hell, life is short. BUY BOTH!

Absolutely, if you can have both they are great compliments to one another. It simply expands your horizons.

[Steve knight]

I think most of it got covered. hold down is critical with a cnc router. the faster you cut the harder it is to hold down the material. a router will be more expensive too and take more space and tooling to use well. dc vacuum hold down other woodworking tools. me if I get a laser I want one that will cut metal. or a waterjet.

[Larry Bratton]

I think most of it got covered. hold down is critical with a cnc router. the faster you cut the harder it is to hold down the material. a router will be more expensive too and take more space and tooling to use well. dc vacuum hold down other woodworking tools. me if I get a laser I want one that will cut metal. or a waterjet.

Steve:
I beg to differ with the "more expensive" part of your reply. Good workable CNC machines can be had today for under $20k. Certainly not true if your comparing to a YAG laser and for sure waterjet equipment which I understand will run over a 100k

[Keith Outten]

There are lots of CNC routers in the 7 to 15 thousand dollar range and very few laser engravers. CNC routers are now appearing at even lower cost, some starting at just over 2 grand. I don't know what the quality is like but competition seems to be having an affect on pricing and the market is responding to the fact that small shops are interested in the technology.

A compromise for some may be purchasing a rotary engraver. The larger models are more like small CNC routers, some are offering 3HP PC Router motors and are capable of 3D work. Unfortunately the price of a rotary engraver can be in the same price range as a large format CNC machine like ShopBots or CamMasters. People with limited space who can't consider even a ShopBot Buddy can still consider a desktop rotary engraver.

.

[Brad Knight]

Just my 2¢... from a guy who is looking at both technologies and have been for a while now...

... to ask "CNC or Laser" is asking the wrong question.

The question should be "what do I want to do." There are a lot of things that are suitable for the laser, a lot of things suitable for the CNC, and a few places where they overlap.

I can't put a cell phone or a laptop on a CNC machine and engrave...

I can't put a put a full sheet of 3/4 ply, do 3D relief very efficiently, cut and engrave aluminum, etc... on a laser.

Cost wise... neither are cheap. Both take a pretty good knowledge of their respective software packages...

... but the key ingredient either way is the imagination and creativity of the operator and the technical ability of the operator to convince the machine to do what you want it to do. THAT... is where the value is.

[Doug Griffith]

Considering a fixed budget and wanting to get in the game...

I compare cheap CNC routers (think Carvewright) to cheap Chinese lasers. Both are limited in their capacity, use less than industrial grade components, and are restricted by their software.

The next step up for both isn't as comparable. The Zing/Versalaser lasers and the Shark router come to mind. The lasers are more or less scaled down production machines. The Shark isn't quite there yet. It is built from plastic and uses a small Dremel type router motor. Plus there is a considerable difference in price.

I would compare entry level lasers like the Zing or Versalaser to a Shopbot and they fall within the same price range. Above 7k and under 20k is about right.

Another thing to think about. The pricing for entry level CNC routers come with routers instead of high speed spindles. A router (even a PC) is like a glass laser tube. You'll wish you had the real thing.