Seriously thinking about picking up welding

[Scott Coffelt]

I have never done it and will be looking for some classes in town, but for a beginner what would be a good (not Minimax Caliper) set-up to begin with? I realize there is that same old questions of what you wanna do with it? I invision working with the lighter to mid-gauge steel, a little heavier then what you buy at HD. I would like to be able to weld up things for the shop, incorporate into some furniture (in the past I have sub out that portion) like bases and what not. I would like to keep at 110v as I do not have 220 in the garage and no space left to add in the panel anyways. What the difference between Tig and Mig? I assume I want to lean towards a wire feed system, also any good books or other resources online to look at? Thanks

[James Carmichael]

I'm anxious to see some replys as this is a skill I've always seen a lot of use for and would love to hear some advice on how to get started learning.

Fortunately, the previous owner of my house bequeathed me a 220 circuit in the garage.

[Dick Parr]

MIG would be the way to go for home. But welding and sawdust do NOT mix. It can cause a fire hours later from one spark. TIG is expensive and cumbersome unless you are doing small fine art work. Stick and MIG will handle medium to large jobs for the shop.

[Scott Coffelt]

I plan on having the welding in the garage and I have a dedicated shop in my basement. So that's why I have no 220 available. I was thinking the mig is what I was needing.

[Chris Padilla]

Welding is something I've also wanted to learn...there are too many times where I've thought, "Darn it, if I could just weld this sucker yadda, yadda, yadda..." and I'd be done a half-hour sooner or wouldn't need to go get a new one or something.

I think if you keep your shop CLEAN, welding and woodworking could work together. I'm working a DC system right now so perhaps one of these days.... Oh, I'll have PLENTY of 240 V when all is said and done....

[Allan Johanson]

I'm no welding expert, but have taken a couple classes here and there. After all my research, I ended up with a Millermatic 175A machine (240V). But the 130A Miller (120V) is a nice machine too. I'm not sure what the input current specifications are for the 120V machines, but they might want to live on a 20A circuit if you want to weld 1/8" material with gas.

So....if you only have #14 wires in the walls on a 15A circuit, you may as well toss in a 30A, 240V circuit with #10 wire for a basic 240V MIG. My welder can draw up to 20A @ 240V when welding the max 1/4" material.

TIG is great for aluminum and fancy stuff like the "art" the guys on American Chopper (and similar TV shows) create. But a nice TIG welder is quite expensive.

I think for a typical home shop hobbyist welder guy, a MIG is the way to go. I'm a fan of using gas and solid wire, instead of the flux-core wire. Flux-core has its uses though, like welding outside on a windy day when the wind would blow away any kind of regular shielding gas. On some machines flux-core wire can also allow you to weld thicker metals. But typically gas makes for a cleaner, nicer weld.

My uses for the MIG are misc shop items like my outfeed table, cyclone, mobile bases, storage racks, stainless steel workbench for automotive stuff and even for a circle jig for my router. The welder saved my bacon when I screwed up. I also have a project car I need to do some rust repair on and I'll be using the MIG a lot for that.

Once you have a welder you'll be finding more uses for it. I'll be making some of my own free-weight exercise stands/gear with the MIG too.

A couple more items to note:

- Buy a quality auto-darkening helmet. Mine darkens in 1/25000 of a second and I LOVE it. The pros are fine with the basic flip helmet, but I'm not a pro and I've done the head flip thing and never got completely comfortable with it. But I love the new helmet.

- Make a note of the THINNEST and THICKEST metal you'd like to weld. This will determine what machine you should buy. I know you said a 120V machine....but depending on what you'd like to do, you may be changing your mind. Don't quote me on this, but the 120V machines might be advertised as being able to weld 3/16" metal - but I think that's with flux-core wire. With solid wire and gas, the max capacity might be 1/8" metal at max current.

- Also be aware that some machines like the Miller can weld as thin as 24ga metal. But the cheaper Hobart line that Miller makes can only weld as thin as 22ga. The Miller is more flexible in this area.

- Where to buy one? This is one case where I'll suggest to go to your local welding store and talk to those guys and buy it from them. The local BORG staffer might be able to tell you if they have a MIG on the shelf, but typically not much beyond that. They probably don't even know what MIG stands for. Go to the local shop and buy from them. You can typically also take a welder for a "test-weld" at the store too. In my area they have a little booth of sorts and will show you what to do. You can also try out different auto-darkening helmets too. These guys are a great resource....build a nice relationship with them. When you are trying to weld thin, rusty metal and keep blowing holes through it, they can give you some ideas, not the BORG salesman!

Want to lurk on a welding forum and hear from the real pros? Try this:

http://www.hobartwelders.com/mboard/

Good luck!

Allan

[Chris Padilla]

Excellent, Allan...thanks so much...just what I (we?) was (were) looking for!

[Rob Russell]

I bought a welder a couple of years ago. It's a little bit of an odd duck - a Lincoln Electric SP135. It doesn't have the current capacity (and therefore can't weld as thick) as a 175 amp machine - but it is a 240v machine which is unusual for the 135 amp class. It is a MIG welder, capable of both solid-core wire with gas and flux-core wire.

I've taken no classes. The guy that I bought it from gave me a 1/2 hour lesson on welding. I found a local place that would let me dumpster dive for scrap metal, practice welding on it and toss it back in their dumpter.

I WILL be getting one of the auto-darkening helmets. As a welding newbie, it's tough to do the helmet flip when you're trying to coordinate a whole bunch of things at once - tip placement and angle, direction of travel, proximity to the weld puddle, etc. - right before you pull the trigger.

Duty cycle is something to look at. The lighter machines will only have a 20 or 30% duty cycle - which means weld 30 seconds, then wait a minute. If you have any sort of long weld, it's frustrating to finally get a good puddle going on thicker stock only to have the welder cycle on you.

I did some research and welding forum lurking before I bought. TIG looks like the overall most flexible, but hardest to learn. MIG is easiser to learn, but not quite as flexible ini terms of materials it'll weld. If you want to do aluminum on a MIG welder, you really need to look at something like a Miller 210 with the spool gun. Because aluminum conducts the heat away so quickly, you need to crank up the amperage and wire feed settings. Aluminum wire is softer and will "birds nest" on a typical MIG gun, so the spool guns pull the wire through rather than the typical push.

So far, I've been basically happy with the MIG setup. My skill is definitely newbie - I've made some pretty lousy looking welds and a few nice ones. I did repair my BIL's treadmill.

The advice of dealing with a welding shop is good. If you don't have 240v in the garage, either run it or fabricate a really heavy duty extension cord that you can plug into a 240v receptacle at the house.

Were I to buy again, I'd go with a Millermatic 210. Keep an eye out for clean used machines - you might find a nice one.

[James Carmichael]

Great stuff guys, thanks for taking the time to reply!

[Scott Coffelt]

Thanks for the input, I hope there are more out there as this is really informative. As far as wiring, I have 12 gauge 20 amp wiring in the garage. I will look tonight and see if I can squeeze a couple of more tandem breakers in the panel to free up a 220 circuit.

I went to HD at lunch jsut to check things out and saw the Lincoln brand name. I think I would prefer to go with something like a Miller (price limiting). For what I am planning, 1/8 to 3/16 would most likely cover me, though the ability to handle 1/4" would be nice. No plans for Aluminum. I've also heard of ESEB (OK saw it on Monster House) and yes I saw Miller on American Chopper.

If I do decide to do something, I will look into the auto diming mask. I am not sure I want to do the whole mask flipping thing.

[Paul Downes]

First of all, MIG stands for Metal-Inert-Gas. It would be more accurate to call a wire welder a Gmaw, or gas-metal-arc-welder. TIG is tungsten-inert-gas, and also is better called a Gtaw process.

For a first time welder who wants to do light fabrication on thinner stock, such as is commonly found in an automobile, you can get by with a 110 volt welder most of the time. These small wire machines can weld 3/16" thick steel in ONE pass, generally. While they do lack sufficiant heat at their max setting to melt heavier stock effectively and get enough penetration, you can bevel grind thicker stock and do multiple passes. They are great for welding auto body sheet metal. Scott, If you plan on fabricating your own mobile bases and such, a 110v Miller or Lincoln wire machine will get the job done. They are rated at about 120-130 amps max output. I would highly recommend that you get instruction from either a knowledgable welder, or take a class. Wire welding may look easy, but I can testify that it is not. I teach repair welding @ work and we get all of our welds tested in our lab. Many people who learned to weld on the 'farm' are supprised at how easy I can break their 'welds'. It is important to learn what a good weld is. Looks can be decieving.
Flux core wire is more smokey and tends to spatter more. It is good for welding outdoors and also for certain processes. I've used it with shielding gas to weld boilers and you get a real smooth bead. Mostly we use gas shielding and solid wire. You can weld stainless steel with a wire machine.

If you can swing a 60a, 220v circuit you might consider a stick welder. You can match the stick size and type to the job which makes it flexible. I just welded a new stainless handle on my rototiller with a stainless rod and it looks real nice. Millers lightning buzz box is a nice unit. This would probably be the cheapest route to be able to weld most things for the shop. I have an old (69) Lincoln Idealarc 250 I picked up for $75 that gets it done at home. Used is good .

[Scott Coffelt]

Thanks again, holy cow I just did some Internet searches, I can tell you the Miller and like are way outside my budget. So, I will preface the question to what is a good starting unit sub-$500. I am willing to look for something used if there is something that I should keep my eye on. Again, only a hobbiest here and I have no plans to go crazy welding just want to begin.

I knew this was a great place to ask these questions.

[Dick Parr]

Again I will make note that welding and sawdust do not mix. Having spent about 30 years welding everything, from rail cars to nuclear reactors with the exception of underwater, I have seen to many fires started from welders, including myself. Wood chips and sawdust settle into the smallest places and all it takes is one small piece of hot metal to fly and start to smolder and then there goes everything in the middle of the night. I have seen fires start hours after the last welding was completed.

If you have to weld in the same shop, please make sure you put some tarps around the area you are welding in to keep the sparks and hot metal from flying.

Oh ya, Rob and Paul gave some good information on what you need.

[Gary Whitt]

Scott,
Be sure to check out used equipment. Sometimes a person dies and their family sells stuff for pennies on the dollar because they don't know what the items are worth.
Also, check some of your local pawn shops.
Or a welder that wants to upgrade might sell you his used equipment.

[Keith Outten]

Scott,

I have an old Miller 225 amp Thunderbolt stick welder that has served me well for over ten years. My Dad bought the machine used for 50 bucks and I bought the welder from him when he upgraded. The real benefit to an older machine like mine is that it has a copper transformer and thus a much higher duty cycle. All of the newer machines in the homeowner line are built with aluminum transformers.

Months ago I purchased an old Crafsman MIG machine, at 90 amps it is only usefull for thin sheet metal. I use it for wrought iron work and it works fine for welding light flatbar and small rod.

No matter what machine you buy whether it be SMAW or MIG make sure you purchase quality electrodes or wire (I prefer Lincoln). You will need a good grinder, either air or electric and some kind of metal cutting band saw. A portaband will do nicely for starters.

Welding can be just as addictive as lathe work, I just though you might like to know