I currently use an aoto (natural stone from Japan) but A2 and PM-V11 really need a synthetic stone. Can someone recommend me a stone in the 2000-3000 range that doesn't easily dish and can handle these steel with good speed?
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I currently use an aoto (natural stone from Japan) but A2 and PM-V11 really need a synthetic stone. Can someone recommend me a stone in the 2000-3000 range that doesn't easily dish and can handle these steel with good speed?
I've never used theirs in that range, but Shapton Pro's cut both of those steel's pretty well. I go 1000, 5000,12000 on them and it takes maybe 15 seconds on each if you're just touching up the micro bevel.
http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/wordpr...erstonet27.png
So, what does this bunch of squiggly lines actually represent?
The blue line is the amount of stone ‘used up’ during the white steel test. The stones are ranked from left to right on how much of themselves they gave up in the quest for knowledge.
The red line is the number of follow up strokes on the #5000 Naniwa Superstone to get the polish to the edge.
The green line is how broad the polish on the bevel was once it touched the very edge (represented as a percentage).
Now, the blue line goes up, as you’d expect it to. What’s interesting is not on the left half of the graph when looking at the green line, but what’s happening on the right side of the graph. From the left, the green line is very predictable. Blue goes up only slowly, green stays right up there, reflecting that the amount of stone consumed for those stones was low, and that naturally the level of dishing on the stone/rounding of the bevel was also low. The small deviation up there isn’t something you’d notice in day to day sharpening, so on the left, yes these stones “stay flat”.
As the graph shows, it is obvious that using up more stone translates into dishing and bevel rounding, until you hit the very end of the graph with the Sigma Select II and King Neo. These two stones had a significant amount of their life taken away (actually less than a percentage point, but still significant!) but not that much dishing evident. In the case of the Sigma, actually very little dishing was observed, and if these stones were graded on observed bevel rounding, they would be much closer to the left side of the graph.
Why?
Simple, the Sigma Select II and King Neo are intended for very tough, abrasion resistant steels, such as High Speed Steel (HSS) and Stainless Steel (SS) respectively. Because the white steel chisel did not offer a challenge to them, they got the job done incredibly quickly, before they could dish to a significant degree. So while they may feel soft, and are comparatively soft, they might not be able to effectively resist dishing ,like the much harder ceramic type stones, but they are able to ward off dishing by getting the job done fast.
Another fly in the ointment is the King Hyper. While it sits solidly on the right side of the graph, the amount of observed dishing and follow up strokes is quite low. Why is that? Again, there’s a logical explanation.
The King Hyper is made of similar stuff as the hard, ceramic stones but in a softer binder so it does ‘spend’ itself to get the work done quickly. However, because the abrasive is quite tough and high quality, what’s being shed and left on the stone is still working very hard and not ‘spent’ as it might be if the abrasive used was less durable. So while the stone itself might be dished, the slurry is doing just as much as the abrasive still on the stone. A curious observation, and while it might not sound so impressive here and now, the implications are very interesting, especially for some of you out there reading this.
The King Deluxe lives up to its reputation of being soft and easily dished. No surprise there. The Sigma Oribest however fared very poorly, and the reason is that it’s of the same intention as the King Neo and Sigma Select II, but the binder is soft, maybe a little too soft. This does help it deal with very tough, hard steels but when pushed beyond its limits, it can’t keep up. A good stone if you need something that will work with tough steel, just don’t push it too hard, it will bite back.
If you prefer a stone that “will not dish,” stick to the stones on left side of the graph. If you prefer to get things done quickly, stick to the stones on the right. If none of this is important to you, throw a dart and pick the one it lands on.
Thanks again for reading, https://www.toolsfromjapan.com/wordpress/?p=756
Not exactly answering your question Jessica, but I have had good luck using the Sigma II stones on some LN A-2 tooling with a regimen of their 1,000#-6,000#-13,000 stones. These are full-soak (around a 10 min soak is said to do the job) stones as opposed to the splash-and-go types. I purchased them from Stu at Tools From Japan.
@ Stewie: I think I'm going with the King hyper 2000. My chisels are quite hard at 66HRC so they need a stone that will easily form a slurry.
@David: If you're talking about the orange 6000 stone, I have it and I love it. It creates a very durable edge on my oire nomis.
Thanks Stewie,Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewie Simpson
Good information. As most/all my cutters are "soft" iron I'm happy on the left side. The chart shows a reason why.
ken
Naniwa Pro 3000. Good results with my PM-V11 plane blades & chisels following a 1000. (not much demand placed on the 3000 like that). I use the Naniwa Nagura for slurry & for cleaning all my stones.
Blair.
Great info, Stewie.
Can we make this a stickie?
Having a strong preference for W1 and 01 steel within my chisels and plane irons (58-60HRC); I chose the Sigma Power Hard Ceramic stones. The later purchase of the 400grit stone is not shown within the bottom photo.
http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/wordpr...erstonet27.png'
http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/...psjxqexgos.jpg
Disclaimer: I am relatively new to sharpening stones.
I am plenty glad with Shapton Pro 2000. I also have Norton 4000/8000 but Shapton Pro is more used for my demand on sharpening.
All the best.