Hmmm ... interesting point. Could the tool that performs that function arguably be the CNC Router?
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Hmmm ... interesting point. Could the tool that performs that function arguably be the CNC Router?
I agree - good analysis.
Here in the Colonies, you gotta go back in time to the high-quality, big-arn stuff. In today's dollars, those machines new would be $2-$3K, I guess. I run a mid-80's PM150A-VS. The standard-grade Delta it replaced was not in the same ballpark - not even in the same solar system. It took a while to find a good, refurb one, and it took a 1,200 mile round trip drive to get it. And I paid close to top-dollar. But - all said and done, I've got less in mine than a new PM2800.
It really was, I guess, an entry-level tool for machine shops, but it is also a top-level for WW. It's big brother the 1200 is a honker, and really only for machine shops and nutso WW guys - like me - wish I had one. :p
I figger that the market for something new, at this quality and performance level, would have a market size too small for a company to make the investment on R&D and production.
There is a reasonable trade in the PM1150 and 1200 machines - that is why I asked the OP where he is located..thought I could offer him a few possible sources he was not aware of..............but he hasn't shown back up to his own party so far.
It seems unlikely that there isn't a market Kent - plenty are happy to pay for machines at the Hammer/Felder level for example.
It's got problematical over here - the traditional refrain of 'keep an eye out for a good used machine on the cheap' doesn't apply any more. Not unless you get very lucky.
We just don't have the industrial history for there to be enough old iron popping up in Ireland, and what does has typically been beaten to death and rusting in some farmer's hayshed for years.
In the UK where until recently there was a steady supply of good quality/lightly used old stuff like Fobco, Meddings and the like coming out of schools and colleges, but that supply seems largely to have dried up. The dealers are grabbing the little that does surface at auction (institutions are anyway often scared to sell to the public for fear of liability), and jacking prices to the moon. e.g. over $2,000 for a used Fobco 7/8. It's a bit the same for stuff like mill drills, it seems it was only a case of waiting a while to pick up a nice used Arboga 2508 mill drill (again from a college) for around £500 a few years ago, but e.g. the last that came up was missing key tooling, and they were looking for £1,250 and refusing any warranty whatsoever. Add in transport and it's heading for $2,000. That's before you risk finding you got a clunker, and are facing into $250 a pop for even basic OEM parts e.g. a gear from Sweden….
Ian -
I feel your pain.
I got nuttin' to help you, brudda. Zip. Zero. Nada.
What's the freight for a 600# crate from US to Ireland?
I can't remember the numbers, but I've had a pallet over before and it's not bad at all. Of the order of a few $100s. Tax is perhaps the bigger issue at 21%. At one point I thought seriously of bringing over one of the woodworking specific high end Delta, but took fright at the reports of poor quality and minimal spares back up. There's also the 50/60Hz issue. There's also a high end Jet variable speed, but there's been a few mixed reports about regarding reliability on that too. Both get some good reports too...
As above i've for good or ill just ordered an RF 31 type mill drill type machine in the UK. Presuming it's a good example it looks very promising. 500 x200mm positioning table, light milling capability, 130mm spindle travel, better than 1 thou runout, smooth running and rock solid for £1,150. (about $1,400) Judging by one I saw running last week they can be very smooth… The risk its hard to eliminate is that they come out of a number of different Chinese factories as well as the original in Taiwan - it's hard top know what's decent and what not. I've gone for one that gets good press, and has been around for years. It's about double the cost of a better quality but still consumer level drill press which isn't so bad, but wish me luck...