I just don't get it III

This may be sharpening a little. My observations are like this. I do a full sharpening (grind by hand or machine) seldom. I do refresh edges when needed. I'm the same with saws. I refresh fairly often and do more jointing when needed. It seems to me that after a full resharpenig the edge lasts longer. I wonder if this has to do with the steel being damaged furthe back than a touch up will get to. I work with oak a lot. I have found when doing a lot of chopping and refresh the edge lasts okay but if in the course of work I damage the edge enough I have to resharpen the edge seems to go farther. Is this an example of what some call work hardening or is it just the steel being damaged?
Jim

I do a full sharpening always. The same thing every time: full bevel, flat grind, polish, strop. About 35 seconds for carving tools, 70 seconds for chisels, 90 seconds for plane irons. That is because I want to get rid of the wear. If a stropping or honing on a fine stone is helpful, then probably either 1) you are beating up the edge and then straightening it out without removing wear, or 2) you are honing at ever higher angles and eventually have to start over.

With saws, I joint the saw occasionally, not every sharpening. If you were to sharpen perfectly, there would be no need for jointing, so the frequency of jointing is dependent on how skillful your sharpening is.

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Originally Posted by Warren Mickley

I do a full sharpening always. The same thing every time: full bevel, flat grind, polish, strop. About 35 seconds for carving tools, 70 seconds for chisels, 90 seconds for plane irons. That is because I want to get rid of the wear. If a stropping or honing on a fine stone is helpful, then probably either 1) you are beating up the edge and then straightening it out without removing wear, or 2) you are honing at ever higher angles and eventually have to start over.

With saws, I joint the saw occasionally, not every sharpening. If you were to sharpen perfectly, there would be no need for jointing, so the frequency of jointing is dependent on how skillful your sharpening is.

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Nuff said!

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Originally Posted by James Pallas

This may be sharpening a little. My observations are like this. I do a full sharpening (grind by hand or machine) seldom. I do refresh edges when needed. I'm the same with saws. I refresh fairly often and do more jointing when needed. It seems to me that after a full resharpenig the edge lasts longer. I wonder if this has to do with the steel being damaged furthe back than a touch up will get to. I work with oak a lot. I have found when doing a lot of chopping and refresh the edge lasts okay but if in the course of work I damage the edge enough I have to resharpen the edge seems to go farther. Is this an example of what some call work hardening or is it just the steel being damaged?
Jim

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Jim,

I think in the course of use - you ding the edge and wear the edge... Refresh it a bit and you fix some of the little spots but not all of them... Refreashing also makes the edge somewhat wavy.... Still more or less adequate for the work but not quite working as well.. Eventually you get to a point where it's not cutting right and you need to start all the way over.... Now - all the little nicks, dings, and wavy spotted edge that was kinda halfway-but-not-really working are gone and you are back to a fresh clean edge..

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Originally Posted by Warren Mickley

I do a full sharpening always. The same thing every time: full bevel, flat grind, polish, strop. About 35 seconds for carving tools, 70 seconds for chisels, 90 seconds for plane irons. That is because I want to get rid of the wear. If a stropping or honing on a fine stone is helpful, then probably either 1) you are beating up the edge and then straightening it out without removing wear, or 2) you are honing at ever higher angles and eventually have to start over.

With saws, I joint the saw occasionally, not every sharpening. If you were to sharpen perfectly, there would be no need for jointing, so the frequency of jointing is dependent on how skillful your sharpening is.

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Your exactly right with what you say and what I'm seeing. I think there is some damage to the underlying steel behind the edge. If you don't get to that the edge won't last. It can look good (10 power loupe) and feel right but the steel behind that edge is compromised. I'm going to work the edge a little more in the future. I don't usually resort to using a loupe to check an edge but have done so just to see damage more than anything. Thanks Warren.