Sharpening - keep my 6" high speed grinder or buy something else

Hi everyone. I know there are many threads on the Turners Forum about sharpening and I think I have read them all. I have a 6" high speed 3450 grinder that I just put a Norton 3X 180 grit wheel on. I am just not getting good results with it. The edge seems rough and the shape is a little off. Partly because I am new at this. My questions are:

Should I just keep learning on what I have?

Should I get a new wheel like a CBN and if so what grit?

Should I get a new grinder and if so high or slow speed, 6" or 8" and what wheels?

Should I get a system like the Tormek - hard to get off a grand for the setup.

I am looking at the Spartan 8" CBN wheel combo https://woodturnerswonders.com/colle...bn-wheel-combo and the Rikon 8" slow speed grinder with 1/2 HP. Not sure if that's enough power for 2 CBN wheels.

Michael, I like 8" wheels better than 6" because the concavity of the bevel is a little less. Also, sometimes 6" bench grinders are not built as rigidly as larger grinders. The high speed is OK for HSS tools which can take the heat, but the control with slower speed might be a wee bit easier, especially with a coarse wheel. But a good 6" full-speed grinder with properly prepared AlOx wheel will certainly sharpen lathe tools. I used the Norton 3x wheels for years.

The 1/2 speed grinder with a CBN wheel is a nice combination. I don't know what wheel to recommend if buying just one. I use two on a grinder: an 80 grit and a 600 grit. These are perfect for my use but others suggest different grits. You can call Ken Rizza at Woodturner's Wonders and he may have a recommendation, or at least tell you what grits most people buy. BTW, I prefer the wheels without the radiused edges - radiused edges were designed to sharpen hollowing tools with fixed bits without needing extreme tool handle swings. For my use the radius serves only to reduce the useful width of the wheel.

In my experience the 1/2hp Rikon grinder has enough power for two of Rizza's aluminum wheels.

I also use a Tormek with a 1200 grit CBN wheel for some tools but the Tormek spins so slowly that reshaping a tool is painfully slow, even with a coarser wheel. Even sharping a moderately sized skew chisel is painful with a Tormek. And as you mention, it's pretty expensive. I would not want the Tormek as the only grinder for lathe tools.

If the shape of the bevel is "a little off" with your current grinding wheel could it be the platform is not aligned properly? (I assume your wheel is dressed properly with a diamond tool and well balanced.) The stock tool platforms on a lot of bench grinders are too small and some are a little flimsy. Many turners, including me, like to use the Oneway Wolverine platform for some tools and the Varigrind jig for spindle and bowl gouges.


JKJ

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Originally Posted by michael dilday

Hi everyone. I know there are many threads on the Turners Forum about sharpening and I think I have read them all. I have a 6" high speed 3450 grinder that I just put a Norton 3X 180 grit wheel on. I am just not getting good results with it. The edge seems rough and the shape is a little off. Partly because I am new at this. My questions are:

Should I just keep learning on what I have?

Should I get a new wheel like a CBN and if so what grit?

Should I get a new grinder and if so high or slow speed, 6" or 8" and what wheels?

Should I get a system like the Tormek - hard to get off a grand for the setup.

I am looking at the Spartan 8" CBN wheel combo https://woodturnerswonders.com/colle...bn-wheel-combo and the Rikon 8" slow speed grinder with 1/2 HP. Not sure if that's enough power for 2 CBN wheels.

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I've got the Rikon 1/2 hp slow speed grinder and have gotten good results with it on my lathe chisels. I paired it with the Oneway Wolverine sharpening jig.

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Originally Posted by Gary Petersen

I've got the Rikon 1/2 hp slow speed grinder and have gotten good results with it on my lathe chisels. I paired it with the Oneway Wolverine sharpening jig.

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Thanks Gary. What size and grit wheels do you have?

The Rikon grinder with one or two CBN wheels is a pretty ideal setup and expensive, but not breathtakingly so. I have the 1 hp, but the 1/2hp seems to be fine for half the money. I have two 180 grit wheels on mine, one set up with the Varigrind for my bowl gouge, the other with a platform for most everything else. Not having to switch out the setup saves me considerable time and irritation. I have a second old grinder with coarse AlOx wheels that I bring out if I have major reshaping to do on a tool (and to sharpen the lawn mower blades), but that is a rare event.

These days I sharpen much less on the wheels, I got a 600 grit diamond slipstone that I keep in my pocket and use frequently as I'm turning. I only go back to the power sharpener when it takes too long to refresh the edge with the hone, so a couple times a day vs every 10 minutes, so most of the time I have a sharper edge with less effort.

When I started turning few years ago I started with a Tormek but it was slow. Searching SMC found the 1HP Rikon had good reviews (except for un-flat base, easy to fit) so bought one and contacted Ken Rizza for a pair of CBN wheels. Add a Wolverine jig and Robo rest and you will be in business. This has worked out great for me. Also, I've been told the CBN is for hardened steel only so you will still need your 6" with Norton wheels for other grinding.

Before buying an eight inch slow speed, do the math. 3450 X 6" X3.14 =64998 inches per minute. 1750 X 8 X 3.14 = 43960 IPM. The "slow speed" grinder actually turns at surface of the wheel 67% of the speed of a 6", 3450 wheel.

I prefer to have things over built, so I got the 1 hp Rikon. Actually I have 2 now. The second one, maybe 2 years after the first one had a flat base rather than the earlier one which was off considerably. I do remove the rubber feet and bolt it to plywood so it is mobile. The 1/2 hp model is popular, but as a production turner, I like it to come up to speed right away. If you are getting one CBN wheel, then get the 180 as it will do maybe 90% of the grinding you will ever need. If you get 2, then get a 600. It does put a cleaner edge on the tools, which I find to work better for fine finish cuts on more difficult woods. Your skew chisel will still need to be honed, though gouges don't really need it. I never had much luck with hand honing, which could be me.... I do like the honing wheel on my Tormek. There are now a number of clones out there which are cheaper. You could make your own honing wheels as well. Do keep the little grinder for high carbon steel, and a coarse wheel for shaping.

robo hippy

I like my Tormek, I used that exclusively for many many years. I have a 600 grit CBN on mine. A year ago I got a 1/2 hp Rikon when it went on sale and a got a 350 grit CBN for that. That's a good set up too. The Tormek is slow as everyone complains about it, but I like mine. Sometimes I move it in the house and watch TV and sharpen up all the dull gouges at the same time. I hone at the lathe so I "sharpen" infrequently. Yes, the Tormek is that slow and quiet enough so you could sharpen and watch TV at the same time. NOT football though. Sometimes I get excited and make a mistake grinding :eek:. It doesn't spew all that grinding dust in the air, so aside from the occasional spillage of water, it's clean. I do run my CBN in antifreeze, against the warnings not to use water.
The really good thing about the Tormek is you can sharpen just about everything in your house. Flat work chisels are real nice to use after the Tormek. If you're married, sharpen the kitchen knives, and the wife (if she cooks) will be happy.

Hi:

As a neophyte turner I bought the 1 hp Rikon 8" slow speed grinder (on sale) with white Alox wheels. With the Oneway/Wolverine jig I got good, repeatable results.

After a year of turning bowls in my spare time I decided to put the Alox wheels on my 8" general purpose grinder because the original wheels were getting pretty old and small and move up to CBN wheels from Ken Rizza (180 and 600 grit).

I am very happy with the improvement in tool sharpness. The level of sharpness and quality of cut was really noticable with my Thompson gouges. Additionally, I never need to worry about the wheels getting smaller with use over time.

best of luck.

DOC

Thanks everyone for the helpful responses. I did read them all. It seems like the CBN wheels are a big hit so I am leaning to Wood Turners Wunders complete Kodiak system.

This system includes:

• One (1) Rikon 1/2 HP Grinder (Stripped)
• One (1) 4-in-1 CBN Wheel
• One (1) Mega Square CBN Wheel
• One (1) Kodiak 1/2 HP Grinder Base
• Two (2) Locking Base Assemblies (Left and Right)
• One (1) Swivel Head Assembly
• One (1) Sliding Arm Assembly
• One (1) Kodiak Tool Rest
• One (1) Kodiak Multi-tool Jig Set
• One (1) Kodiak Vertical Skew Set

I've never heard of the Kodiak set so I watched his video. Looks ok in general. I disagree with his statement that it is nearly universally accepted that a flat grind on a skew is better than a hollow grind. I prefer the hollow grind for several reasons. I do buy the CBN wheels with square edges instead of rounded and with grit down 1" of the side of the wheel. This gives a lot of flexibility for making and sharpening custom tools. I sharpen all skews buy holding them by hand on the grinder platform with no jig. (I use two sizes of the Wolverine platforms for this and some other tools.)

JKJ

I was just looking at the OneWay Wolverine. Which one is better the 1 or the 2? The 2 looks more sophisticated to me.

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Originally Posted by michael dilday

I was just looking at the OneWay Wolverine. Which one is better the 1 or the 2? The 2 looks more sophisticated to me.

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Do you mean the Varigrind 1 or 2?

I have both. I don't like the Varigrind 2. It forces the gouge to stay in the center of the wheel the whole time. This will eventually wear out the center of the wheel. The only reason I keep the Varigrind 2 around is to let people try it and decide for themselves

The orginal Varigrind makes you control the position yourself but that lets you move it to different places on the wheel to distribute the wear. It will not protect you from moving the tool tip completely off the side of the wheel and scratching up the side of the gouge. Some people evidently have this problem and prefer the Varigrind 2. I've never run a gouge off the wheel.

If you get the Oneway Wolverine, take a look at the mini platform. It's great for smaller things and for tools set in handles that are getting too short for the large platform.

JKJ

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Originally Posted by michael dilday

Thanks Gary. What size and grit wheels do you have?

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I'm using the standard 8" 60 and 120 grit wheels that came with it.