I'm purchasing airless sprayer for a home remodel, and am curious if any one has had any luck using a Graco GX-19 or a Titan 440 airless sprayer for their woodworking finishing?
I'm purchasing airless sprayer for a home remodel, and am curious if any one has had any luck using a Graco GX-19 or a Titan 440 airless sprayer for their woodworking finishing?
The Graco unit seems particularly ill-suited for a home remodel, holding only a 1 gallon hopper. When it takes upwards of half a gallon just to fill up the hose, unless you're using a really short hose... Airless sprayers use paint at a prodigious rate, and you'd be better off thinking in terms of 5-gallon buckets, which the 440 would be good with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Connor
I have the Graco ProX19, which produces fantastic results painting houses, and is (at about two thirds the price of the above) methinks the sweet spot for non-daily use of an airless sprayer (it spends most of its time sitting in the corner of the garage menacing me.)
At the same time I would never consider an airless sprayer for finishing, it's too wasteful of material. There's always going to be at least upwards of a quarter gallon or so of "slop" in the cleaning process. Very few people build furniture that big as to make it worthwhile.
I have a Graco X5 and I have painted the inside of two houses including doors, trim and ceilings. It can take fine finish tips as well as a 515, holds 5 gallon containers of paint and costs less than 300 dollars. It is compact enough that storage is not an issue. The finish is a good as professional models but not heavy duty enough for everyday use.
I mainly use the 17 and 19 Graco black tips, and would feel hobbled without that capability, but whatever works for you. (The green ones IMO don't work as well for large-scale painting.)Quote:
Originally Posted by John Goodin
Have a couple airless sprayers used almost exclusively for residential latex. Not sure why you'd invest so much in one of those.models for a.single home.and not familiar with the graco model and why it's so expensive for such a small hopper unit.
My advice would be to get any hose fed model your willing to pay for so you can use pails when needed.
None of my sprayers eat a half gallon in the lines/head. Far less, and you can always top off your can/pail after prime if you need more. We lose nothing in material on clean out, just push the paint out with wash water at the end and you may get a tiny bit of thined paint at the end but thats no issue.
As already stated, your transfer efficiency with straight airless will be hard with fine finishes as they are much thinner than latex paint as well as no ability to feather the gun (on or off) but it can be done for sure.
I'd think you'd be better off stepping down your airless budget and budgeting some for a turbine or small pressure pot setup for your finishing. Youd be much happier.
My goto airless sprayer for most all small work now is a small graco magnum x5 that does all oncan throw at it for a single days spraying. It small and light and has performed as well as the larger airless (a wagner)..
I don't have neither but I do have the Graco 395 which I think may be similar to the 440. I love it and since you said home remodel it will do the exterior and interior walls,with the right tip can spray cabinets and all crown molding etc. But as Doug saying it kinda holds lot of paint so good paint planning will be needed,but I have also learned that hoses in 25' lengths can be purchase which will also save you from wasting so much paint. Latex,or oil is no problem and cleanup needs the most respect when dealing with airless. I suggest getting on Youtube and search airless sprayers and see what might fit your needs, I think an airless is good investment for now and for those future projects.
I have a Graco X5. I just finished painting 20 windows of large Planation shutters.
I used the FFLP208 (Fine Finish Low Pressure). Paint straight from the can, no thinning.
https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...chenDining.jpg
I've used a Graco Ultra Pro 395 with polyurethane. It worked fine, but there was a learning curve. Takes the correct tips and it is really easy to over apply. Like Mark said, the feathering isn't as good as a HVLP gun usually is. I was spraying a large porch ceiling and didn't want to fill my cheapie HVLP gun dozens of times. Mark is also right on the amount of paint it uses to prime. It's not lost, you just use it at the end.
Thanks for all the feedback. I'm not expecting a one-size fits all sprayer, but want to get one that can blur the lines as much as possible. I don't do very much woodworking, but like to dabble in wood and metal projects here and there.
To be honest, I hate painting, but I've already exceeded the budget on my remodel by quite a bit, and it is one area I can see doing to save quite a bit of money, since it will be consistent. The cost of a sprayer (even a professional model) is pale in comparison to the cost of hiring a professional, or even the paint itself.
Here are some current and future needs, and I'd like to cover as much as possible with a single sprayer, knowing I may need to supplement elsewhere later:
- interior latex paint (looks like I have about 10,000 SF of area to paint, 75% of which will require priming first)... mostly all the same - white
- exterior latex painting of brick (around 2000 sf... eventually)
- pre-staining cedar for siding/soffits (around 3500 LF... not sure yet if oil based or water based)
- interior trim
- spraying wood interior of windows with clear urethane
- spraying interior 3-panel doors (interior and exterior)
In the future, I may have the following (cups to a few gallons):
- refreshing the stain on the exterior siding (about 700sf) every 3 years
- various home projects requiring small amounts of painting a cup or two, up through a gallon or two.
- possible re-paint of single rooms
- wood working projects (occasional)
- metal working projects (occasional)
Renting a sprayer is around $100 per day at the big box, and my needs will be spread out over time - so that's not cost effective, and it is a hassle. Last friday I was at Sherwin Williams and they had a killer contractor deal going on for a Titan 440 for $875, so I went ahead and bought it. Could still return it. I think of all the little knick-knacky projects around the house (chicken coop, tree house, etc) that would require paint, and having some sort of an airless makes sense. But the drawback of the bigger units is the smallest projects become a pain with cleaning the unit and potential wasted paint.
I'm not keen on that Graco X5 due to the fact it seems like it is at it's limit spraying latex paint, and could not handle some latex paints with a max orifice of 0.015 (Graco calls out Latex tip sizes as requiring 0.015-0.019; here is another reference) and I would prefer a unit that can do at least a 0.017 or an 0.019 tip. I would see my minimum as the ProX17 or ProX19, but then you're 70% of the cost of a commercial unit that will have higher re-sale value and absolutely no problem on the job.
The attraction to the FinishPro GX-19 hopper is being able to do small jobs (a couple cups to a gallon) without much waste (though I think I'm hearing you just cycle it back into the bucket until the thinning agent starts to come through). The GX-19's 3/16" 25' hose only consumes .04 gallons, whereas a 1/4" 50' hose consumes about 1/2 qt. It's specs (throughput, tip size, etc) are about the same as the ProX19, though lower horsepower (I'm sure a better pump).
Good point on the volumes... now that I've run some rough numbers, I can see we're talking about at least 100 gallons of paint (just interior, on level 5 drywall) and and I suppose I could extend the hopper somehow with an attached 5 gallon bucket, though that may take some work to setup. On the other hand, it seems like that the sprayer itself outpaces all those home units, and it should be sufficient... just not a very big hopper.
My understanding of the professional models I'm looking at is that they have very good pressure control, and when combined with the tip, can actually do an OK job for the urethanes, cabinet enamels, etc. I imagine the home owner series units either cannot do those acceptably, or require a lot more finesse. The homeowner unit also does not have the same versatility, in terms of the materials they can run, due to fire/explosion risk.
A lot of good points raised here - I just need to figure if I keep the larger sprayer for current use, and downsize to something different later (I won't be painting another full house), or start smaller with a homeowner unit and hope it produces as good results and as trouble free.
For those using both a commercial model, as well as the consumer line models - have you noticed a difference in the quality of the results with latex? how about with other materials, such as urethane?
Thanks, again.
That's a really good price for the Titan 440, I would keep it. Take care of it, and it should last you through many projects. I would suggest adding a pressure gauge to it, that makes your efforts more repeatable. (That goes for the less expensive units as well.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Connor
BTW, you'll see safety warnings about airless sprayers. They should be taken very seriously. An injection injury is no joke, keep your wallet card with you so you can show it at the emergency room.
Some good advice here.
Aaron, I would use airless for every one of those jobs, except spraying the "wood interior windows". Trim, yes. Sash, no.
Sorry, I didn't look up those pumps. I have a 25-30 year old pump, and bought a new gun a few years ago. I like the 2-finger trigger gun. It allows you to grip the gun with the other two fingers, and have a bit more control for fine finishing. It might be a bit more tiring for large jobs, but so far, I haven't noticed any problem with that. Get the best gun that either Graco, or Titan makes, regardless of what pump you get.
You will need multiple tips. Regular tips for most walls, and fine finish low pressure for about everything else.
Absolutely get a gauge, and write down the setting once you get it right for a particular coating, and tip.
Home Depot sells a plastic bin, with a low long side, that's about perfect for keeping the rig in. Bin in the picture. Use an old sheet to wrap the rig up when you spray, and yours won't end up looking like mine. That's a Titan gauge on a Graco pump. Both brands use the same threads, so you can mix, and match guns, and such.
Use Pump Saver when putting it to rest for a good while. The pickup can go right in the Pump Saver bottle, also seen in the picture.
For coats on different days, cover the coating in the can with Saran Wrap, and drop the gun in a bucket of water (for water bourne), after taking the tip out to clean. Picture is between primer one evening, and finish the next morning, so the pickup went in the bucket of water too.
Find the Idaho Painter on youtube, and watch as many of his airless videos as you can stand.
Having both a larger and the small graco I cant honesty say I notice any difference spraying any standard coatings on a day to day basis. Being able to spray the thicker materials you reference speaks to spraying very thick, very heavy, industrial and residential coatings. On a residential level itd be spraying something like drylok, or block filler, something so thick your stir stick stands up in the pail. Only you can decide if you need that capacity for pretty much a one shot deal.
It's understood trying to buy one thing that will do a lot of things decently and one thing really well.
I think you'll find a struggle spraying clears and metal finishes on average parts not having fan/pattern, material control, and feathering on the gun. As said its definitely possible but its hard when you get into corners, profiles, and so on when you have a gun that is either wide open or off. Then the issues of pattern when your spraying 4" trim or narrow elements with a 12" pattern and trying to angle your pattern to maximize transfer efficiency but increase speed drastically to avoid sags and runs especially with thinner film finishes that are far more sag prone with heavy application. Then switch to smaller tips and your dry/slow overapray, etc.
Your going to need one anyway so sounds like your there and at the worst you can sell it at then end and get the better fit for what your doing at the time. The larger unit will Hve more resale value.
As Doug said, unless you paint for a living, even on a contractor basis they often sit far more than they spray.
I will also agree that the airless is great for the higher viscosity color products typically used around the home, but it's going to be a struggle to get good results with the lower viscosity clear coats typically used for woodworking. A mid-range or even "less expensive" HPLV conversion gun and a compressor may provide significantly better results with much lower product waste for those clear finishes.
The tip size will often be recommended in the instructions on the container, along with the dilution rate. I've had really good results with following those recommendations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Bolton
Something that hasn't been mentioned is that the paint has to be stirred/mixed very aggressively, there are tools to do this, and filtered through a mesh etc. Otherwise a tendency to clog (which is why I bought my own sprayer after getting tired of sloppy cleaning of the rentals.)
Agree'd 100% on the filtering though we filter all paint whether rolling or spraying. Either one is a nightmare with little nibs and bits of trash. A half dozen of the elastic type mesh pail screening filters are right with the sprayer and we just snap one on a pail, pour in, and nitrile gloves, squeeze the material through the filter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Dawson
My point with the thicker materials is a larger pump will run the same material with far less dilution (or none), and of course a larger tip (volume and pump power), that a small pump may not keep up with. Ive run super thick high quality latex, perhaps a bit thinner than sour cream, wide open with no thinning through the small pump with no issue at all. I never thin day to day latex through the sprayer anyway because your typically running far less coverage than you should anyway so I want it straight out of the can/pail which is why I also prefer rolling over spray or even spray with back roll anyway. But large massive ceilings it helps. The best combo to me for interior/exterior paint is a pressure roller on the sprayer and you can roll non stop. Doesnt help with trim/crown/etc. but it make a world of difference keeping wet edges in large spaces.