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Carcase vs Dovetail saw
Regarding saw choices - is there a good reason to have both a dovetail and a rip carcase saw? For example the Gramercy line has both a 9" DT saw and a 12" carcase rip saw that is recommended for use for "larger dovetails". Has anyone compared them side to side and would it be reasonable to use the 12" saw as a primary dovetailing saw? My hands are big and the 12" saw feels pretty comfortable
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For me, it is only related to how easy it is, or is not, to control the saw in a fine cut. I purchased a larger saw and I hardly ever use it because I found that I strongly prefer to cut dovetails with a smaller saw. So I only use the larger saw when I really need to.
I suspect that you could cut dovetails with a really large saw if you want. If you have opportunity, try them both, it is only about the feel and how it works in your hand.
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Dovetail saws are normally fine rip tooth configuration, and cut fine straight cuts. A rip saw will cut straight, but leave a rougher edge not suitable for dove tails. Rob Lee can help you with that and you will have a new toy.
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It depends on the user and the project. Some of my dovetails have been in 2X construction lumber. A delicate saw might have some trouble.
For many years a 12" backsaw with a thicker plate worked well for cutting dovetails.
A nice thin plate back saw from Ron Bontz now has me spoiled.
jtk
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Mark, I do not use a dovetail saw for dovetails. I’m 6’6” with a 6’10” wingspan and basketball hands. A dovetail saw is just utterly small for me, hard to control, and the stroke is so short I feel like I’m flossing teeth! It feels like I’m using a saw designed for a Barbie and Ken playset. So I went out on the bay and found myself an old 15tpi rip carcass saw. That’s my dovetail saw. It works great. I have zero regrets. I have not had any problem with the quality of the cut on the finished product.
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While both dovetail and carcass saws are considered "ripping", the difference is usually in the tooth set. The dovetail has a much smaller offset.
As others have said, you can make dovetails with any saw, the finer the teeth, the blade thickness and tooth set will determine how much finessing needs to be done after the cut.
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2 Attachment(s)
Barnwood Builders on TV cut dovetails with chainsaws.
My chainsaw hasn't been used for dovetails, only tenons for chucking something up in the lathe:
Attachment 437970
It came out like this:
Attachment 437972
More material was removed later from the end near the handle due to weight.
jtk
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I don't know where you are located Mark, but maybe one of us is within a reasonable distance and you could try out someone's 9"-10" dovetail saw to compare with the 12" saw that feels comfortable. I believe that a 12" dovetail saw is within the bounds of usefulness, especially if it has 12ppi or more. If you do buy a decent, well regarded shorter/finer toothed dovetail saw and it does not feel right, it would probably re sell for a less-than big hit on the price.
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So how big are your hands? Curious.
Lots of variables involved, but the short answer to your question is no. Fine craftsman have been cutting fine dovetails with larger saws for hundreds of years. But as a matter of definition.....a 12" carcass saw filed rip is really a small tenon saw or a 12" sash saw. These days there are many uses of carcass or sash saw to describe saws. Example: A 14" long x 3.5" under spine saw used to be considered a "sash saw". Generally filed rip. But some will file it differently and call it a carcass saw. So who knows. :) Lots of people have obtained just the "carcass saw" to keep from buying two different saws. Lastly, depending on the hang of the saw, A very large handle may tend to look out of proportion in comparison to the saw plate size. A dovetail is certainly a finesse saw. Ultimately, what ever works best for you.
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After thinking more about this, one more thought. I have a short dovetail rip saw that I use for 3/16" - 1/2" thick drawer sides and backs. That is by far the most common dovetail work I do (volume wise) and that saw is great for that work, practically cuts the dovetails by itself while I drink coffee or swab sweat with the other hand. But, if I use it for cutting the tails on a clamped-up, double thickness carcase sides, it sucks. Too short, too fine and the blade heats up. Instead, I use a standard rip saw for that work. What size dovetails do you mainly cut? I used longer rip toothed tenon or carcase saws only for that work until getting the smaller one for the work that I mainly did. The longer saws work, just that the smaller saw works even better. I started with a general purpose saw purchase, then moved to a specific saw purchase as the need arose and the $ were available.
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1 Attachment(s)
These are the two saws I use.
Attachment 438004
Stanley No. 4, 14", 9ppi rip...and a Stanley No. 68.
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Mark,
If you're near northeast Indiana I have a LN dovetail saw and a Gramercy carcass saw you're welcome to try.
Cliff
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An 8 1/2 surgical glove. The dovetail saw feels a bit like a toy but if it’s the right tool for the job
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That’s very kind Cliff. If a bit far. However how have you liked the Gramercy saw. What are your primary uses of it ?
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So it seems the short answer is yes. Using a smaller dovetail saw for thin stock and fine, small dovetails where paring and cleaning up between pins might be a challenge is a case where the smaller saw is nice. And if you are cutting dovetails you likely will want to cut tenons too in thicker stock, but not with a 9 or 12 DT but rather a tenon. I like the smaller 12” DT saw for DT work. Smaller footprint on the bench, lighter and less heft to control