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So I emptied the ridiculously thick plastic bag in my cyclone drum recently. So thick the bag didn't get sucked down into the drum well so the drum really wasn't full. Lacking another bag I ended up dumping the thick bag into a 32 gallon trash bag for disposal. It dawned on me, why even use a bag? If I'm going to dump the drum anyway just collect chips in the bare drum.
Thoughts?
You could do something to hold the bag down. I've seen wire frames stuck into the bad, or Grizzly DC's have a tube that goes from the cone to the collector.
My Oneida has a heavy sleeve that slides into the drum to hold the bag fully open. Remember the drum is on the suction side of the blower, so the bag is not being pushed outward. If you are going to dump the bin into something else, there's no reason to have a bag. But I wouldn't want to do that inside the shop and release a bunch of fine dust in the process, after having carefully collected it.
I made a sleeve of bending plywood to hold the bag in place. My Oneida cyclone came with a 1/4" tube from the cyclone intake down to the drum to suck the bag open.
I use bags to minimize my dust exposure and decrease my trips over the hill to the dairy farm for disposal as bedding. I can get 8 or 9 30 gallon bags in the back of my Volvo wagon. For a while I used multiple plastic drums, but the bags are lighter and more compact. Dumping one bin into another is no fun.
The best setup I have seen for a busy small shop was a cyclone with a rotary air lock dropping into an enclosed dump trailer - minimal handling.
It really comes down to how/where you need to dispose of the chips/dust. At my old shop, the barrel when full took a joy-ride on the front end loader of my tractor to the pile where I put said materials to enjoy nature while they (eventually) decomposed. Here at the new place, I have to put them into the regular trash pickup so I've had to go with the bag scenario in the bin. I do use an insert that holds the bag down so they do actually fill up. Disposal is pretty much pull out the insert and then the bag, tie up the bag and put in the big trash can, install a new bag, put the insert back in followed by carefully installing the lid for a tight seal.
I've heard of people using a piece of cheap laminate rolled into a cylinder. Put a bag into a drum them put the rolled up laminate inside the bag. It'll hold the bag open against the suction. Remove the laminate then empty or dispose of the bag.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew More
That's pretty much what Oneida does on their larger collectors. They include a thin piece of plastic that you roll and pin together into a loop and then slide it down just inside the bag. Slips out to pull the bag out when full and then repeat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Harms
This is what I do . It keeps the rim of the barrel pristine , no small leaks .Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Harms
I just posted about this in my ivac thread....I just went through the same idea recently myself and have also decided to drop the bag. I have a Clearvue 5hp and the bag always wanted to suck up so I had to rig things to try and keep it secure...PIA and doesn't work that well. The oneida unit was recommended but I didn't end up buying it because of too many reviews saying it only lasted them 6mo. Then I thought about it. I have a drum with a seal so nothing is going to escape any differently than if a bag were in there....when I do have to take the bag out of the drum I usually have to fight with it to get it out which in turn I am sure is releasing more dust into the air (always wear a mask when emptying the bin regardless) and if I have a liner of some sort I have to play around to get that out too releasing more. So I said, fill the drum up open the lid, put a bag over the top, bungee it down, tip it over, fill up the bag close er' up. I find that I can get more material in the drum, less dust escaping on emptying, and less time playing around with it. Now all of this depends a bit on your particular drum style and ease, but this works well for me.
What doesn't work well is knowing when the drum is full! I installed the ivac and immediately have some issues (see other thread) what are you guys using, and how well does it work?
It's also available from them for the 35 gallon bin like the one I have in my temporary shop with the SDD. It's not laminate, but it is thin plastic. The Oneida version has fasteners to roll and keep it at the diameter one needs to hold the bag for the particular bin...no re-rolling every time like with a piece of laminate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Parrish
^^^ this confirms what I was thinking, well said. I'm joining the bagless camp! I like the bungy cord idea also I'm adopting that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt Wyberanec
I would add that my cyclone has a metal ring in the bottom to create an air space and a 2 inch hose from the bottom up to the fan housing, the design is supposed to apply negative pressure to keep the back sucked to the bottom of the drum without having to insert a weight into the bag itself. I find it's not working well, nice idea but the cyclone doesn't have shop vac like suction. Plus it's a pain that the drum is tethered to the cyclone via that hose, another reason to go bagless.
Don't join the bagless camp quite so fast.
On AMZN, Lawson makes a 'bag holder' that you can use exactly as the Oneida bag holder. Mine was about $30. You can cut it down to size as you see fit.
Then, you use cheap, black garbage bags inside the dust collector.
To prevent them from being sucked up, poke a hole in the bag a little above the rim. These breaks provide enough relief so my 3hp motor doesn't suck up my cheap Costco bags.
When you open the bin, pull the liner out, then throw the entire bag away. It's much easier and cleaner than having to transport and empty the bin directly.
I've been doing this on my Oneida for 2 years and it works well.
I dump mine in the woods, seems it always fills up at 10 o'clock at night when it is 10 degrees out. I would just like a spare fiber drum. Oneida has switched to metal so that would require 2 new ones with $75 shipping fee just for one. The fiber drum they supplied was made by Grief but must have been special for them since their standard size is 30 gallons, smaller diameter and shorter, would need to modify a new lid plus lengthen the hose plus ...... suppliers of Grief drums still charge that $75 shipping.
Seems like lots complain about the plastic sleeve and bags having issues but I see myself going down that road so I can empty the full bag when convenient. Unless I find a spare 35 gallon fiber drum laying beside the road of course.
I have a 35 gal metal drum on my dust collector, no bag. I dump the drum into a big trash can (55 gal?) periodically which has a cheap plastic bag. I wear a mask and roll the can and drum outside for the transfer. I check and dump the drum before it is full most of the time. I don’t want to overfill the drum. I would probably waste a lot of bags by under-filling if I used drum liners, or worse, I might over fill the drum trying to get the liner full.
I have a 35 gal drum because I think 55 would be too heavy for me for transferring to the trash can
For those who use Oneida’s plastic sleeve inside a drum liner, does it work well? There are some negative reviews on Oneida’s web site that say the sleeve collapses inward cutting off most of the drum volume. Oneida responded saying they had upgraded to thicker plastic for the sleeve. Is the problem fixed?
Telling you, just bungee a bag over your drum turn it upside down (unless it's too big) shake a couple of times, remove, tie, and get back to work...I do this in my shop 5ft from my collector in a few min and get virtually no dust in the air (that I can see... and certainly less than pulling out the retainers and bag from the drum) or floor... try it a couple of times there really nothing to lose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrell Bade
You must be stronger or have lighter drums than me. I can't easily flip a 55gal steel drum and shake it out into a bag. I have a roll of 6mil poly bags that seem to last a long time. Maybe 100 bags in the roll.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt Wyberanec
There are hundreds of steel drums for sale on our local craigslist for cheap. I picked up a black food grade drum which is coated on the inside to replace the lame drum that came with my cyclone. I had to cut it down a few inches. Added some decent casters on the bottom, spruced it up a bit with a rattle can of paint WAY stiffer than the tin can drum from the factory. Also added 4 latches vs only 2 on the factory drum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrell Bade
Attachment 474133
I'm bagless and just dump the swarf into my green waste recycle can. I have a 35 gallon bin. I couldn't handle a 55 gallon bin.
Mike
Steel definitely a little tricky, I have plastic only weighs about 10lbs...I thought he had mentioned fiber which is even less.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Funk
That is what I have been doing for ten years. Tried different bag-in-the-drum tricks, just seemed easier to dump the drum into a contractor bag. Well, mostly by scooping.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Coolidge
I do this, bagless:
I have a rectangular wood box that collects the chips/dust, slides inside a cabinet with a screwed on front. Someday will change over to latched front.
Use a plastic scoop to transfer to a paper lawn bag for disposal
Yes it is dusty when I do it, wear a mask and then leave the shop while the air filter clears the air
Mine has a square chip collection bin, not bag friendly, so I've never used one. I also don't want to add to the numbe of plastic bags going to the landfill. I scoop it out with a big aluminum dustpan into a trash can then carry it out to whichever part of the garden DW directs. Too many handling steps, but I should't try to pick up the heavy steel bin.
Roger makes another good point, why bag it and landfill it when I could just dump it onto my compost pile. Well assuming it won't start itself on fire. I may rig something for my tractor font end loader that can grab the drum, haul it and dump it.
I use a 30 gallon food grade composite bin in my shop. When it is full, I take it outside where I have a stand that holds a 42 gallon contractor bag steady while I dump into the bag. I wear a respirator during this operation, but since I am outside it really does keep the mess out of my shop.
I had previously dumped into the compost pile but quickly overran the pile (it was literally the size of a mini-cooper within a short period of time).
I use a bag inside my 55 gallon drum. When i put a new bag in, I try to open it up as much as possible. After I have starting filling the new bag, could be a few days or a week, depending upon what kind of waste I'm producing, I open the drum and the weight of the waste in the bag usually squeezes out the air that is trapped between the bag the drum. Once that air pocket is gone, I can usually get about 50 gallons of waste in.
I think Leigh is cheating, that looks way too easy. Can we report him to the moderators or something?
I believe there are issues with dumping it into compost, something about the composition pushing the mix of materials a little too far in the wrong way, so you might want to read up, and potentially keep an eye on it/add some stuff to offset it.
Sawdust and chips are not great for serious composting or mulching-- their decomposition sucks up nitrogen and creates problems. The same properties make them good for inhibiting weeds around shrubs and laying down on walking paths you want to keep clear. If you can afford the space for a significant pile the chips will eventually break down into more usable material, but it takes years. Spreading them thin in beds and supplementing with a little nitrogen fertilizer seems to work well. My blueberries seem to be pretty happy with a couple inches of chips on their feet, they do a good job of inhibiting many weeds.
I go the sleeve method.
Attachment 474201
Pop rivet to size. I put a couple of short rope handles 180 degrees from each other for pulling it out of the bin.
Attachment 474200
I slip the bag over the sleeve, flip it over and drop it into the bin.
Attachment 474203 . Attachment 474202
I have tried it with the bag out over the bin lip and also inside. Performance seems the same but the lid does have a nice soft foam gasket that is pretty conforming. I generally get a few uses per bag. I will dump the waste into the green barrel as others have described. When the bag is toast I replace it. I have used various types and weights of bags as I scrounge them. I have used lawn-n-leaf bags with success in the past but, they can be delicate for lifting the bag out of the bin. With my existing stock supplied by my crack team of contracted bag scroungers (friends and family scrounging at work) I may have a lifetime supply at this point.
Mine dumps from the cyclops directly into a 30 gallon metal trash can. I dump it on the trails in the woods behind the shop. After the can the air is blown out the back of the closet with no filters.
I’m a bagger. To ensure the 42 gal Home Depot trash bag conforms to the inside of the 30 gal drum, I have a 240V fish tank air pump that pulls from below the bag and returns to the inlet of the clearvue cyclone. No more partially filled bags.
Cheers
Sean
I use 6 mil bags from American Fabric Filter, good for many cycles. Inside the drum minor leaks are not a problem. https://americanfabricfilter.com/collection-bags/