To Anyone Who Has Built An Acoustic Guitar From Scratch

Building an acoustic has been on my wish list for a while. Now is as good a time as any. I have some woods I'd like to use but am not sure how they will work out in an acoustic.

I plan to buy bookmatched sitka spruce for the soundboard. I've been reading Jon Kincaid's book and he recommends some woods typically used for the back and sides but I don't have any of those in my stock. I'm trying to keep the costs down, so I looked through what I do have. I've got enough figured sapele to do the back and sides and even the neck. It's gorgeous wood but I don't know about the sound.

On to the questions:

Is sapele ever used in acoustic guitar bodies? If so, what kind of sound does it create?

Would sapele be acceptable for the neck? I was thinking macassar ebony for the fretboard.

Oh, for the record, I tried bending the figured sapele and I was able to get a pretty tight bend without any evidence of fibers breaking. So I'm good on bending quality.

Sapele is offered as a guitar making alternative to Honduran Mahogany, so as a species, it should work fine for backs, sides and necks. Taylor uses it a lot these days.

However, understand that just having an appropriate species of wood is not the only consideration. How the wood is cut is really important. You should try to use quartersawn, vertical grain lumber for building guitars. If you use flatsawn lumber, lots of negative things can happen. Guitars are made by gluing really thin pieces of lumber together in ways that make them very sensitive to changes in relative humidity. It is hard enough for a guitar made with quartersawn lumber to survive humidity changes; if you use flatsawn lumber, the guitar’s odds of being OK go down fast.

Also, while I respect the desire to keep the hard costs down, please also consider the fact that the most expensive thing you put into a handmade guitar is not the wood, but rather your time. It is heartbreaking to spend so many hours on a guitar and have it turn out as a bad instrument because you didn’t use good wood. It doesn’t have to be expensive wood to be good wood. Just maybe consider using store-bought wood the first time out, while you are learning.

Good luck with the project. I love building guitars.

Don, thanks for the informational reply. I really appreciate the help.

I've been gradually absorbing Kinkead's book and learning a lot. I have read about the inherent problems with flat sawn woods but nothing I intend to use will be flat sawn.

When I first started studying up on making an acoustic, I read a lot about tonal quality of the woods. Kinkead talks of tapping the wood, as you progress through the work, saying, "if you hold one end of the wood and rap it lightly with your knuckle you should hear a light and lively sound". And I've watched some videos on voicing the soundboard. Pretty interesting. Today I'm going to resaw the figured sapele and give tapping a try.

In the build Kinkead works on in the book, he uses Indian rosewood for the backs and sides. Other woods he suggests using are Honduran mahogany, Brazilian rosewood, Maple, Koa, American black walnut and English yew. The first two are very rare now. The last two I've never seen when hardwood shopping. But I do have some maple and a little koa. In maple, I have a piece of medium figured that I could resaw for the sides. And a couple of high figured pieces that could become necks, but would require gluing for the angled headstock and heel. And in koa, I think about all I could come up with is enough to make a neck, again with some glue ups.

As far as the quality of the sapele, what I was thinking of using for the B&S is highly figured. The solid body below is from the same slab.
http://julimorcreations.com/Images/G...xe/Rad_002.jpg
The remaining piece is 16"x32"x8/4. I think the 32" length is long enough for the sides. Strangely, Kinkead's book doesn't seem to mention the length needed for the sides but I measured the plan and 32" should be enough.

After I posted this, I did a web search and saw a number of guitars that had quilted sapele for the B&S. I have no idea about the tonal differences between high figure and quilted. I did read, however, some comments about the beautiful sound coming from those guitars.

At this point it looks like I'll be purchasing soundboard halves from StewMac. I'm looking at Master Class bearclaw sitka spruce. I just wish I could be there in person to compare what they have. I will probably purchase sitka spruce braces from SM, too. Just not sure if I should buy pre-shaped or not. And to make things a bit easier, I'll add mahogany kerfing to the order.

Am I on the right track? Do I need to make some changes? Or am I so clueless that I need to do more research before jumping into the fire?

Let me suggest you also read the Cumpiano/Natelson book before you start building. It is my favorite book for a first build from scratch. Also, for wood, look at a few more places than just StewMac. StewMac is awesome, but their focus is the tools more than the wood. In contrast, Luthiers Mercantile International, Allied Lutherie, and other such suppliers can offer you a better wood selection at decent prices.

Also, don’t focus too much on the tonal qualities of various woods at this point in your development as a builder. For the first guitar, you should just focus on building the thing right. If you start with OK wood that is appropriate for a guitar, and build it well, it will be at least a very good guitar. If you make your goal a perfect guitar your first time out, you will have frustration and disappointment, because you will definitely make mistakes. Just power through, let it be imperfect, learn a lot in the process, and have fun. The second one is way easier, and the third is even easier. Good luck!

Thanks, Don. Wise words...

As I was looking at the cost of decent soundboard wood it became obvious I need to first hone my skills. I thought about all this reclaimed pine I have, probably 30-40 years old. Some of it has very tight grain. This piece is about 2" wide.
http://julimorcreations.com/Images/G...crapper_02.jpg

So I milled up some pieces, enough to make a soundboard. Then jointed the edges for a glue up.
http://julimorcreations.com/Images/G...crapper_01.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Julie Moriarty

... I thought about all this reclaimed pine I have, ... So I milled up some pieces, enough to make a soundboard....

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You remind me of the Taylor Pallet Guitar. :)

They apparently don't have anything on their website, but THIS ARTICLE roughly matches what I remember them saying on the factory tour.

Good luck!

Is is not that uncommon to see 4 piece tops. Feel free to experiment with the pine. If nothing else, it is great practice for creating a good center seam later on in your spruce top, which can be a challenge for the first guitar. That seam has to be, well, seamless.

you had earlier asked about buying braces versus making them. They are really easy to make, so I would just make them from scratch. You learn more that way, and there is spare wood for when something gets messed up beyond redemption.

For neck wood, I am a firm proponent of Honduran mahogany. Mahogany is the most dimensionally stable wood there is. When the weather changes, you don’t want your guitar’s neck to go all wonky. Truss rods can’t fix everything. I would use mahogany, just to give the neck the best chance of remaining straight.

Mahogany is good for the rest of the structural components, too (blocks, kerfed linings). You can buy these precut, but with access to normal tools like a bandsaw and table saw, you can just buy more mahogany and make them yourself, which I prefer.

The lumber top is good for jointing practice - but I wouldn't use if for your guitar top... It looks like it's got knots all over the place and the grain is going every which way..

I did a very similar thing for jointing practice for my #1 guitar... I made 2 "tops" just like that... Each one was 10 or 12 pieces... But by the time I got every single joint to pass candling and then glue up without gaps - I had made probably 50 joints and had figured out the technique... Jointing my "Real top" and back was straight forward...

The next thing is to joint and glue these slats one at a time. There is less risk of the whole thing going wonky on you... Glue 2 pieces together at a time following the technique shown in the book... The goal is to learn how it works - not blast through and hope for the best...

On your practice top joints - be sure to candle each one and work the joint till no light shines through. Likely you will end up cutting the joints back apart a few times... That's what practice is for... Better to practice like this than on a $40 guitar top..

On your back and sides... I would not use high figure Sapele for the first one.. If for no other reason than you are going to make a lot of mistakes along the way and ruin something... Buy a straight grained African Mahogany back and sides and off you go.

On the choice of a book... The best advice I can give you is to pick one system and stick with it... The biggest mistake many folks do is to mix and match between books, internet forums, Youtube, and imagination trying to figure out what seems like best of this or that operation.. Trust that the fellow who wrote the book is an experienced professional and this is the way he does it.. It's already worked out... And you don't know any better anyway... I am not familiar with Kinkaide - but the only caution I will offer is to make sure you use a conventional 2-piece neck joint - either the Martin Dovetail or the bolt on M&T. Do not carve the neck/neck block out of 1 piece of wood or use some oddball proprietary neck joint.... And then - if you get stuck, ask for help then...

This morning I rechecked the joints on the soon-to-be pine soundboard and jointed as necessary then set up for the glue up.
http://julimorcreations.com/Images/G...rapper_003.jpg

Any remaining knots will not fall into the final shape
http://julimorcreations.com/Images/G...rapper_004.jpg

It's now glued up. I'll clean up the squeeze out once it gels.
http://julimorcreations.com/Images/G...rapper_005.jpg

I'm interested to hear what kind of resonance I get out of this, if any!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Don Parker

Is is not that uncommon to see 4 piece tops. Feel free to experiment with the pine. If nothing else, it is great practice for creating a good center seam later on in your spruce top, which can be a challenge for the first guitar. That seam has to be, well, seamless.

you had earlier asked about buying braces versus making them. They are really easy to make, so I would just make them from scratch. You learn more that way, and there is spare wood for when something gets messed up beyond redemption.

For neck wood, I am a firm proponent of Honduran mahogany. Mahogany is the most dimensionally stable wood there is. When the weather changes, you don’t want your guitar’s neck to go all wonky. Truss rods can’t fix everything. I would use mahogany, just to give the neck the best chance of remaining straight.

Mahogany is good for the rest of the structural components, too (blocks, kerfed linings). You can buy these precut, but with access to normal tools like a bandsaw and table saw, you can just buy more mahogany and make them yourself, which I prefer.

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Don, the soundboard I'm working on now is practice. I can make all the mistakes I want. :) As for the Honduran mahogany neck, while it's the preferred wood, it's hard to get here and VERY pricey. It may be on the CITES list now. I heard a few years ago it was heading that way. The figured sapele should be a good substitute and I've got it in stock.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John C Cox

The lumber top is good for jointing practice - but I wouldn't use if for your guitar top... It looks like it's got knots all over the place and the grain is going every which way..

I did a very similar thing for jointing practice for my #1 guitar... I made 2 "tops" just like that... Each one was 10 or 12 pieces... But by the time I got every single joint to pass candling and then glue up without gaps - I had made probably 50 joints and had figured out the technique... Jointing my "Real top" and back was straight forward...

The next thing is to joint and glue these slats one at a time. There is less risk of the whole thing going wonky on you... Glue 2 pieces together at a time following the technique shown in the book... The goal is to learn how it works - not blast through and hope for the best...

On your practice top joints - be sure to candle each one and work the joint till no light shines through. Likely you will end up cutting the joints back apart a few times... That's what practice is for... Better to practice like this than on a $40 guitar top..

On your back and sides... I would not use high figure Sapele for the first one.. If for no other reason than you are going to make a lot of mistakes along the way and ruin something... Buy a straight grained African Mahogany back and sides and off you go.

On the choice of a book... The best advice I can give you is to pick one system and stick with it... The biggest mistake many folks do is to mix and match between books, internet forums, Youtube, and imagination trying to figure out what seems like best of this or that operation.. Trust that the fellow who wrote the book is an experienced professional and this is the way he does it.. It's already worked out... And you don't know any better anyway... I am not familiar with Kinkaide - but the only caution I will offer is to make sure you use a conventional 2-piece neck joint - either the Martin Dovetail or the bolt on M&T. Do not carve the neck/neck block out of 1 piece of wood or use some oddball proprietary neck joint.... And then - if you get stuck, ask for help then...

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John, as you can see I already did the glue up using cauls. We'll see how that goes. I ordered some sitka spruce practice tops at $8 per top. Once they get here I'll probably drop the pine project, unless I can get some sound out of it.

As for the braces, I ended up ordering enough splits of sitka spruce to do 4 guitars. So I'll be getting a lot of practice making braces from scratch. Should be fun.

Thanks for the tip on the neck joint. I was thinking of making the neck long enough to rout the dovetail into the neck, thinking that would be the best way. I'm WAY more comfortable making a separate piece. And I do intend to follow the book but I have read that the book does not go deep enough into detail and that I should expect to need outside help.

Thanks again guys for the help. I think this will be fun and a great vacation from making cabinets and home remodeling.

Here are some wood suppliers that can sell you decent guitar wood:

RC Tonewoods
West Penn Hardwoods
Luthiers Mercantile International
Hibdon Hardwood
Aaron Hix Guitars
Allied Lutherie
Old World Tonewood

Hibdon Hardwood is actually running a sale right now on "less than perfect" mahogany neck blanks. I recommend buying the 1" thick material and making a scarf joint for the headstock, and stacking the heel. The material is cheaper that way.

I will add Hearne Hardwoods to that list that Don provided...they offer some really nice wood they choose specifically for this application.

Julie - Constantines in Ft Lauderdale has all sorts of beautiful and exotic wood - including both Af and H. mahogany.. There are Woodcraft stores in Clearwater and Orlando as well - and they generally stock mahogany as well as several other woods you could use.. For example - QS American cherry makes fantastic necks.. Those are all probably about an hour and change from Punta Gorda...

You guys make me miss so much what I left up north. Woodcraft used to be 15 minutes door-to-door. Now it's 2 hours, 3-4 if traffic is bad. Owl Hardwood, pretty much anything we'd want, 30 minutes to wood paradise. Oh well...

Anyway,

Got the scrap wood soundboard down to 1/8" and sanded to 240. Did some knuckle tapping and actually got some vibration. You should have seen the smile on my face. :D

Then I marked the perimeter and locations for the braces.
http://julimorcreations.com/Images/G...rapper_006.jpg

When I referred to Kincaid's book, I couldn't any find dimensions for the braces. It would seem that's kind of important. All there was is this:
http://julimorcreations.com/Images/G...rapper_007.jpg
It's obvious there are different heights for different braces and I know in voicing the soundboard that changes but it would be good to know where to start. Got some research to do.

Julie, I checked to see if I had any mahogany that would be suitable for a neck. It's all to thin. I suggest checking with any nearby architectural millwork companys

Thanks for the thoughts, Mel. I think I'm good, as long as figured sapele will work. The piece I have is perfect.

Now I have a confession. I was wrong about the brace dimensions not being given. They are on the plans. I simply missed it.

I have built three acoustic guitars so far following the Kinkead book. The only change I made was to make the body a uniform depth along the full length rather than have it deeper in the lower bout and shallower in the upper. The first two were cherry and the third was walnut. I used the lowest grade Sitka spruce soundboard wood from Stew-Mac and it was about $20 per guitar, the wood was very nice and I had no complaints about it at all. If you'd like to see the guitars I made, or links to videos of how they sound here's a link to my website.
Zach
https://hoytbanjos.com/acoustic-guitars/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zachary Hoyt

I have built three acoustic guitars so far following the Kinkead book. The only change I made was to make the body a uniform depth along the full length rather than have it deeper in the lower bout and shallower in the upper. The first two were cherry and the third was walnut. I used the lowest grade Sitka spruce soundboard wood from Stew-Mac and it was about $20 per guitar, the wood was very nice and I had no complaints about it at all. If you'd like to see the guitars I made, or links to videos of how they sound here's a link to my website.
Zach
https://hoytbanjos.com/acoustic-guitars/

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Thanks for the link, Zach. The guitars look great! Nice to know someone who has built guitars with Kincaid's book.

I started working on the braces then stepped back and reviewed the book. It was then I realized I'd have to cut the rosette and soundhole before doing to the braces. Glad I checked.

I have two bases for the Dremel, the StewMac original and a Micro Plunge base. The Dremel comes in a pretty complete kit. I thought with all that I'd have some way to cut a circle. I was wrong!

So I designed something to fit on the StewMac base because the Micro Plunge is a bit bulky for cutting small holes. The jig I created is made from 1/4" plexiglas.
http://julimorcreations.com/Images/G...rapper_011.jpg

I gave it a try on the test soundboard.
http://julimorcreations.com/Images/G...rapper_008.jpg
http://julimorcreations.com/Images/G...rapper_009.jpg

I had cut two passes on the soundhole and almost finished it when I realized I need to cut the rosette first. Whew! The only issue I had with the circle cutter was with the StewMac base. I hadn't tightened the depth adjustments enough and on the second pass it wiggled off the circle.

I only did one rosette ring and filled it with African mahogany. I'll have to give future rosettes more thought.
http://julimorcreations.com/Images/G...rapper_012.jpg
http://julimorcreations.com/Images/G...rapper_013.jpg

I didn't put a shellac seal on the soundboard before applying CA to the rosette. That's why the bleed marks.

Been messing around with the braces in between the kitchen cabinet job and doing taxes. The guitar work has kept me sane.

I picked up three sets of soundboards. Two of them cost $8/ea and they will be my learning boards. A couple of GAL videos on making a soundboard. The presenters said they have found scalloping the braces has little effect over straight backed braces. The first guy seemed very credible but the second guy was on the order of having multiple PhDs in lutherie. The research he's done in soundboards and guitar design is mind blowing. So I decided to make one soundboard with scalloped braces and the other with straight braces and see how it goes.

The first set of braces are ready for glue up.
http://julimorcreations.com/Images/G...rapper_014.jpg

Next is to get the first $8 soundboard glued up, shaped, etc. I'll probably take that pine soundboard and put it next to my first solid body experiment. :rolleyes:

The braces look great, good for you. I don't scallop mine, and the guitars have sounded good to me, but what do I know. I use Titebond 1 to glue the rosette in, I make a channel 1/8" wide and try for the wood for the rosette to be .123" to .125" wide before bending. Then I bend it and once it's dry I put glue in the bottom of the channel and tap the rosette in with a hammer, very gently. Each little bit of the circle will sort of pop into place, and then I push the next bit into place and tap it down. I don't cut the end off till I get all the way around the circle, and then it's easy to do with a knife. If I was clever it would be nice to precut the length but I'm not sure enough to do it. My rosette/soundhole cutter is a piece of 2x2 SPF scrap that I drilled a hole in and threaded the Dremel into, back before I had a base for it. I have some different holes in the 2x2 for making different radii, but I have to be careful to put the right hole on the pivot. It's rather primitive compared to yours.
Zach

Really nice work on that guitar. I can't offer you any advise except maybe to see if your local library can get you a copy of Trevor Gore's book on guitar design and building. I bought it as a present to myself, but I don't think many other beginners are crazy enough make that investment. .

I've got most of the other books mentioned here, or have borrowed them, and I will never open them again for advise on design. Gore and Gilet made them all obsolete by explaining the physics. They don't tell you what sound to aim for, but they do tell you how to design to get the sound you want, and how to test your wood and such. Pretty amazing. There's no tapping and guessing if the tone sounds good. It's tapping and measuring frequency curves and stressing it with weights and measuring deflections. You use some simple tools and a microphone. I get through a few pages a night. Cool stuff if you want to understand what makes a guitar sound like a guitar, and also how to manipulate parameters to affect volume, eq, overtones, etc.