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Hello, I don't post often but read a lot on the forum. After much research and reading, I'm about to purchase an Oneida V-3000 cyclone for my 24x24 shop. Within the last week, the V series has switched from steel to a conductive resin material. I'm not opposed to resin v. steel but I'm usually not an "early adopter". I was wondering if there are any reviews out there yet on the new material?
http://www.oneida-air.com/inventory.asp?CatId={883C6AA7-4C85-49FD-9EEA-C51D09DC8B19}
Thanks,
Cam
But wait, their ad campaign since forever is all about welded steel this and welded steel that!?! Actually the lighter weight and specs look really interesting. I have no valuable contribution but, will enjoy seeing the responses.
I have the plastic version of the Super Dust Deputy cyclone for my DC. They switched that from metal to resin some time back (although they still sell the metal version). I have not had any problems with it, so I assume the material works just fine.
I put in an order with Oneida last week for a V3000 with the new static conducting resin cyclone. Should arrive in a few weeks. Plastic seems better than metal to me, but we will see.Metal maybe tougher than plastic, but for my use, that's irrelevant. I have one of their original 1.5 hp cyclones that had the internal filter, until I retrofitted to a external filter. My only reservation of the resin is possible more air leaks at a junction point of plastic to plastic vs metal to metal. I think with the plastic, you can design a better cyclone for separation vs a welded assembly, at least at the same price point. Lighter and modular(motor, fan, cyclone) makes moving easier. 88 inch height will accommodate 8 foot ceilings. Resin cyclone is quieter than the steel Gorilla. Stand looks to be simple, strong, light design. Quality fan blade (my impression, but no data to back this up). High quality filter with data to back it up. The quality of the filter is one of the bigger pluses.
My goal for the new collector is a cleaner shop, better air quality, and more quite work space. Working of improving the pick up of dust at the source too.
John, I'm on the verge of ordering the V-3000 as well. Based on the numbers and reviews, it appears to be a great performer. Just caught me off guard to see the switch from metal to resin. I hope you post your installation progress. Are you using metal or pvc pipe? I plan to use 6" S&D pipe. I have a separate room wired for the DC and insulated for sound. I do plan to mount to the wall to get the ductwork up and out of the way (the room is ~12' to the ceiling), but once it comes into my shop area, it'll only be 10' to the ceiling. Some have mentioned that you need a ~10' straight run off the cyclone for optimal performance. With my arrangement, I'll get only ~3' before elbows and wye's. I can't determine if this short, straight run will have a real impact on performance
If you buy from Onieda, quiz them on this issue. They take pride in duct system design.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron Handyside
I use spiral metal duct work from Spiral Manufacturing in Minneapolis. I don't remember the price but it was significantly cheaper than the Oneida. Plus the shipping was incredibly cheap. In the Midwest, we have speedy delivery. Speedy is a little risky with damage, but save alot, especially with the long sections of pipe. It took a lot more time to cut, drill, screw, tape joints than I thought. Nordfab was briefly considered even with the astronomical prices, but decided against. Is S&D the same as PVC? PVC is cheap, available at the Big Box, and goes together quickly. I think the static issue and PVC depends on circumstances(assuming its not grounded). Climate is one of them. Dry climate, more static risk, humid climate, low static risk. Static did fry a festool vac switch on me. Never had a fire or explosion. Then there is the conversions and series of adaptors to get different sections to connect. I'm finding duct work is the worst for this. An argument in my book to stick with a company that offers the most efficient connection/ least hassles.
And one more thing. I think a little more understanding on the question of wyes, elbows, reduces will help you make a better choice. Each machine has a certain amount of CFM that is required. There are several tables out there that list the required CFM. The problem with these tables is they are gross generalizations to the point of being useless. My 10 inch Sawstop table saw needs probably 20% of the CFM to collect dust compared to a old school 10 inch Delta Table saw. So much of the "needed" CFM is dependent on how efficiently you minimize scattering at the source. You are fortunate to have high ceilings! Reducers, elbows, Wyes, FLEX tube! rob CFM. Keep to a minimum, if the machine requires high CFM. You can estimate the Static pressure (think resistence) at each machine based on the obstacles between the machine and other end (filter). There are tables that tell you how much each obstacle adds and come up with a total Static pressure (SP). To be more precise, you can drill a hole in the duct work and actually measure the CFM at at point with the right tool. Oneida has a fan curve for SP vs CFM. The more HP or larger impeller, the more it keeps the CFM up as obstacles are added.
Minimize the obstacles as you can. If you can't then add a bigger motor/impeller.
Or, just use several dust collectors. That is what Scott Philips (celebrity woodworker) told me. Makes a lot of sense. I have a hobby shop. I can only run one machine at a time. All dust is not created equal, so there is an optimal system to collected each type. My jointer spits out large chips and I don't think any dust. All ends up on the floor. Dust pan works well. Routers, sanders, table saw, lots of fine dust. Contain and allow highest CFM possible.
To those who have bought these, what are your impressions so far?
The V-3000 has a 7" inlet for a reason. It is a pretty big dust collector. You would be well served to go with a 7" main duct, which points you to steel. As I have said many times, 7" is the sweet spot for 800-1000 cfm and even Bill Pentz mentions 7" steel ductwork. Don't be afraid to go with 26 gauge snap lock, it works fine. I have a 2 hp SDG (7" mains) with absolutely no straight pipe into the cyclone and it works fine, although I probably get a bit more fines bypassing the cyclone, but it is certainly manageable.
I purchased my v3000 (conductive resin) in October. Still working to get the system up and running but do have the dust collector installed. I think the resin is well made and the fit/finish is very good. I'll withhold final judgement until everything is up and running but here are a few pics to-date:
Attachment 304172 Attachment 304173 Attachment 304174Attachment 304175
Looks nice, Cameron. Similar to the mounting I have in mind. What are the dimensions of the space where you have it installed?
D.
Dan,
Off my shop, I have an attached room (bump out) that measures 6' x 12'. Inside it's only about 5' x 11'. The intake on the V3000 points right at the wall where it'll penetrate into my shop. I have it up and did a brief test run w/o ducting. I'm going with 6" Sewer & Drain and right now scratching my head about making the initial connection to the intake. It's 7" ID and about 7-1/4" OD. I tried a metal reducer from HD and couldn't squeeze it into the intake and Fernco doesn't make a 7 to 6 coupling (I think 8 will be too big).
I've found that the flared end of the S&D pipe is only slightly smaller than the intake ID and am considering just wrapping it in the neoprene weather stripping leftovers that came w/ the V-3000. That appears to make a snug fit but I worry about the suction pulling on the pipe. Any thoughts?
I think I'd dig up a proper 7" to 6" reducer. The not-belled end should fit over the 6" side of the reducer.
D.
Does anyone know the Micron filtration capability (smallest particle size)
PaPa Jack
Dan, I think you are right. I may have to just purchase the reducer from Oneida. I'll try to post some pictures of the installation once I make some progress.
Jack, the filter documentation with my system says down to 0.3 microns at 97% (if I recall correctly). I assume that is for a properly seasoned filter.
Cam
My only question is.......Why are they not much less expensive than the steel ones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Potter
Excellent question. I think they may have answered it by jacking up the price of the SDGs--seemslike they were a lot closer together when I started looking at this a couple of months ago. I'd love to have a 3HP SDG but...
3HP Super Dust Gorilla: $1865 with wall mount and 35 gal bin, plus $395 shipping = $2260
3HP V3000: $1613 with wall mount and 35 gal bin, plus $250 shipping = $1863
3.5 HP Penn State Tempest S: $1395 with wall mount and 35 gallon bin, plus $150 shipping(Quoted to me by PSI) = $1545
I love buying American when I can, but if you look at the fan curves of these three, the 3.5HP Tempest S is a lot of cyclone for the money.
The most DC per dollar is the 2.5 HP Tempest S ($995 with wall mount and 35 gal bin plus shipping). If you look at the performance graph in the 2013 wood magazine comparison, the 2.5HP Tempest S with a 14" impeller outperforms the (still steel at the time) V3000. At $995 plus shipping (with wall bracket and 35 gal bin), I've got to admit I've given it a lot of consideration. It's the most dust collector you can buy for under a grand.
There are downsides Penn State, of course, just like there are downsides to every manufacturer or vendor. That said, the 5-year warranty on the Tempest S vs 1 year on the V3000 and 2 year on the SDG is one more leg up for PSI.
But if I had piles of money I needed to spend, I'd buy an Oneida.
D.
They switched from metal to resin as I was working through my order with them (hence the origial post). The price did not go up during that time (I worked with them for about 2 weeks) and they included the remote switch for free. I was very concerned, not being an early adopter but things seem to be good so far. If I can find the correct reducer that will fit on the 7" inlet. Yesterday, I asked Oneida if their reducer will fit on the new resin and no response yet.
Interesting when I was talking with the sales associate at Oneida, I was leaning towards the 3HP SDG but once I sent them my shop's floor plan (with tools), they highly recommended I go with the V-3000. I felt pretty confident in the decision but still a few days out before an actual test.
Approximately how large is your shop?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron Handyside
David, it's 24'x24' with a 6'x12' bump out room I call the "mechanical room" where I have the compressor and DC. Most of the stationary tools are on the shared wall with the bump out so I hope to keep the duct runs to a minimum. I'll try to post some pics...
From Oneida: "Filter 99.97% of airborne particles 0.3–0.5 microns (µm) in size". In other words, excellent filtration.
Frank
Oneida seems to have the smallest sf. of filter area when comparing to similar dust collectors from other mfg's. I asked them about this and their comment was something to the effect of "we are into quality of filtered air, not quantity". My experience has been more filter area= better performance.
OH NO!!!! I hear the "Which is better" question coming..... "Resin or PTEG??";):D
Personally, after all the banter about plastic being inferior to steel over the years, I find this development very amusing. I'm still super thrilled with my ClearVue, but it is nice to see that there are other options coming to the market. Jim.