beismeyer fence is not flat? saw marks as I am ripping?

I have a new to me delta unisaw, came with a bies fence, yesterday I was using it for the first time and noticed the fence has a wave to it, I held a straight edge to it and it looks like 1/16 or so dip in the one spot. how can I fix this??

Attachment 307988

also I bought a new Oshlun SBW-100024 10-Inch 24 Tooth ATB Ripping Saw Blade. and when ripping walnut I get saw marks (not horrible but you can see them), I have not had a rip blade before always used a combination, is this just the blade or is it a saw issue?
I check the blade run out and whether everything is parrallel. it all seemed ok. could probably used tuned up at some point, I did adjust the fence to be parallel to miter slot as well as I could.

Check side clearance variance. Do all the teeth stick out the same amount from the saw plate (body). Teeth that stick out too far leave marks. 0.0005" is currently good. Up to 0.003" is probably o.k.

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Originally Posted by Tom Walz

Check side clearance variance. Do all the teeth stick out the same amount from the saw plate (body). Teeth that stick out too far leave marks. 0.0005" is currently good. Up to 0.003" is probably o.k.

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just use dial indicator and hit each tooth to see if they are the same?

That dip in the fence is probably not the problem with the cut. It would only be a problem when the wood is not bridging the dip in the fence, beginning and end of the board. It will most likely not be an issue except on small pieces if it is close to the blade.

The problem is most likely you fence and blade not in parallel. I see the saw is used, so after moving it most likely needs a light tune. Use the search function and you will find enough information on how to tune your saw that you will be totally confused.:p So I won't even get into that......

Nice saw, congratulations, Larry

For a different opinion, I think that deviation in the fence is unacceptable. A tablesaw is designed to cut straight. the performance drops in proportion to the deviation from straight.

Unfortunately (and I loved my Beis fence) these fences do not offer an elegant way to remove or shim the fence faces. Many of the "better than Beis" clones off access slots from the bottom of the fence tube for shimming or changing out these faces.

The original faces are screwed to the tube and then laminated unless this has changed recently. Most posts I have seen about this have people just ripping the orginals off, drilling and tapping holes and replacing the faces with new material in such a way as to allow the faces to be shimmed.

Your deviation is larger than any I have seen to date. Does the fence happen to bulge out on the opposite side? this is just a curiosity question as to whether the fence tube is bent or it is just a bad face. Either way, replacing the faces is not a big job and one done, offers versatility in the future.

Here's some 8/4 beech right off the saw with a 30T Carbide Processors glue-line-rip:

Attachment 307999 . Attachment 307998

That deviation in the fence isn't good. The fence faces can be shimmed or replaced. It's also not unusual for there to be more saw marks from a 24T rip blade than a 40T or 50T blade. If you want a smoother cut, use a similar quality blade with more teeth.

I use my table saw for ripping a lot and use a Diablo ripping blade and get zero saw marks. As good a cut as a jointer. I suspect you have a blade problem.

What is the best option for material to replace the fence with, price is a concern... i did see on amazon you can get sheets of plastic, would something like that work? Or maybe a thin aluminum extrusion?

I have heard some owners stick a strip of UHMW Polyethylene ,that would be the first thing I look at:

UHMW Polyethylene http://www.leevalley.com/en/images/i.../46J9016s4.jpg

I have used laminate over plywood, solid wood, plain ply, Corian, melamine, UHMW, maybe others that I don't remember for fence faces. All work if done with care, even on a slightly bent tube with a bit of shimming. Ends up, personal preference. My preference if I can get the right colors, is Corian. Color or pattern won't make it cut any better but we all like a pretty table saw, don't we??? If I ever think the blade is even close to touching my fence, I will clamp on a sacrificial face.

Glenn, I was not really implying that the fence should not be fixed although it did kind of come out that way, just that the teeth dragging on the whole length of the cut is not the fault of the dip in the fence. The fence should be fixed and the tablesaw aligned and blade checked, two separate issues to my way of thinking.

That fence is unacceptable. I can't believe that some people are saying that a 1/16" dip is not a problem. The worse case would be if the hollow in the fence is at the front of your blade. Your wood will follow the fence into the hollow, and then as it starts to curve back in towards the blade, it will move the whole board towards the blade. Then, the rising teeth will contact the board, causing saw marks and increasing the potential for a kickback. Also, with a longer board, it will create a gap between the board and the fence at the front of the saw blade as it straddles the hollow in the fence. This will cause the width of your ripped board to be narrower by 1/16" at that point than it was at the start of the cut.

You really need to address it. I don't have a Biesemeyer, but I assume that you can easily remove the face. I'd do that, and check the underlying metal for flatness as well. If it's flat, I'd probably buy or make a new face. You could also see if it is swappable with the opposite face if you don't need to rip on the right of the fence. If the metal has a dip as well, you'll have to shim the face.

Ok thanks I'm going to research what material I can find for decent price. Thanks

I found a cabinet shop that will sell me a piece of corian for 10$ I am going to pick it up today.

I picked up a piece of corian and I will be rebuilding the fence, any recommendations on what screws to use? also how many? 4 or 5?

I picked up a piece of corian and I will be rebuilding the fence, any recommendations on what screws to use? also how many? 4 or 5?

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Originally Posted by cody michael

What is the best option for material to replace the fence with, price is a concern... i did see on amazon you can get sheets of plastic, would something like that work? Or maybe a thin aluminum extrusion?

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Aluminum will flex.

You can do this:
Attachment 308307
Attachment 308308

For more information on what I did go here

i got the piece of corian, I just need to remove plywood fence and attach the corian.

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Originally Posted by Larry Edgerton

Glenn, I was not really implying that the fence should not be fixed although it did kind of come out that way, just that the teeth dragging on the whole length of the cut is not the fault of the dip in the fence. The fence should be fixed and the tablesaw aligned and blade checked, two separate issues to my way of thinking.

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We are in agreement Larry. The typed word is sometimes not as clear (<=== read sarcasm here) as we would be were we speaking face to face. No problem, I get your drift. :)

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Originally Posted by cody michael

I picked up a piece of corian and I will be rebuilding the fence, any recommendations on what screws to use? also how many? 4 or 5?

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Sorry Cody. We weren't ignoring you ;-) I would use 5 but, I cannot say just why; more fasteners equals less stress per fastener maybe. Corian will flex so you want to get your tube surface shimmed, bond-o'd or whatever to where it is flat before you screw your corian down. I have seen several posts wqhere people have used corian successfully. Do you plan to counterbore the face and attach from the outside by theading into the steel tube?

Corian needs to move. I used to install it and it was never fastened, just set in a bed of silicone. For this reason I am not sure I would bolt it. You may end up with a wavy fence, not sure as I have never tried it for this purpose. I would be more inclined to try bonding it to the fence first with silicone by clamping the fence/Corian sandwich to a known flat surface for a couple of days. If temps in your shop stay constant summer/winter it may not be a problem.

Just a thought....

Let us know how it works out as I have a couple of Biesmeyers that could use a reface and am curious.

I did some research, corian moves 2/32 over 42 inches with a 100 degree change in temperature. assuming center screw is tight, outer screws would each have 1/32 of flex, if I drill slightly oversized holes would this be ok? or will the flex just elongate the holes for me? I did 100 degrees as summer winter variance. it would only move that much over months.

sorry for the duplicate posts above, I couldn't see them being posted... I need to switch to linear view.

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Originally Posted by scott spencer

That deviation in the fence isn't good. The fence faces can be shimmed or replaced. It's also not unusual for there to be more saw marks from a 24T rip blade than a 40T or 50T blade. If you want a smoother cut, use a similar quality blade with more teeth.

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Scott, I don't disagree with your comment entirely a 24T WWII rip blade leaves a very acceptable surface with no visible tooth marks. It is a bit rougher than a more refined blade such as the red rip line blades, neither of which in my opinion are joint worthy.

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Originally Posted by David Nelson1

Scott, I don't disagree with your comment entirely a 24T WWII rip blade leaves a very acceptable surface with no visible tooth marks. It is a bit rougher than a more refined blade such as the red rip line blades, neither of which in my opinion are joint worthy.

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I think it is at least partially the blade, I have a wwII cut everything type blade, it makes nice rips on most stuff, but seems to burn my walnut (freshly sharpened, did the same thing on my old table saw before it was sharpened) the 24t doesn't burn but leaves teeth marks.

Checking side clearance variance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7032df3xJk

thanks I only have a dial indicator, and the side dial ones are $$ I would have to find a new tip and make some sort of jig to measure it. I think it is mostly the blade, since my wwII cuts with no saw marks

Are you sure that your straight edge is accurate?

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Originally Posted by Jamie Schmitz

Are you sure that your straight edge is accurate?

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all the boards I have cut that are freshly jointed have the same dip...

I know I'm late to the party but I had a Beise fence on a new Uni that was not flat. As others suggested I was able to get it dialed in perfectly with plastic shim stock. Keep this in mind the Corian may have the same issue.

Mike

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Originally Posted by Mike Goetzke

I know I'm late to the party but I had a Beise fence on a new Uni that was not flat. As others suggested I was able to get it dialed in perfectly with plastic shim stock. Keep this in mind the Corian may have the same issue.

Mike

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how exactly did you do this?

As others have indicated the fence is plywood with laminate over it. You need to peel the laminate off which is not easy but you need to do this so you can access the screws that attach the fence to the tube. Don't throw the fence away because you need to use it as a template. Once the fence is off you can check to see if your tube is flat or not. If the tube is out you can mark the areas where you will need to shim it.

You can use the old fence as a template for the screw holes so the new fence will fit. The screws are recessed in the fence so by using Corian you will have the holes showing but are high enough not to be an issue. You then shim the fence flat.

Before you take apart the fence have you tried to adjust your fence to get rid of the dip? If you have a dip in the middle of the fence you may need to shim it but if its on one of the ends adjusting the fence can help. I have a slight dip in the middle of my fence but the boards come out fine. I set it at 5 inches and they come out 5 inches.

When you make a new one, I'd leave the screws exposed (obviously countersunk). That way you can remove it later or fine tune the shimming as needed.

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Originally Posted by cody michael

how exactly did you do this?

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Been a while but as I recall I used screwdrivers or chisels to provide space for the shims. Also, this is a long thread so sorry if someone suggested this already but two more solutions:

1) At one time I picked up a PM TS fence (I temporarily use it on a custom track saw table). The faces on that fence as I recall were 1/2" UHMW material. There were "key" hole slots cut from the bottom along the length. Bolt heads fit in the slots and the threaded ends went into holes in the metal fence itself and were fastened with nuts. This way with your Corian you could adjust the vertical height of the fence face and easily add shims if needed.

2) Rockler sells Universal Fence Clamps (Linky) - these may work for you too.


Mike

I bolted up the corian, it turned out decent, shimmer some spots, used card scraper on some and got it pretty flat. I drilled holes oversized so it can flex. I cut some boards today and the teeth marks are barely noticeable to completely gone depending on the board


With my wwII blade I think something like 50 tooth, it is supposed to be like a cut everything blade. But on some walnut like 7/8 thick it burns very badly, on sassafras and pine it cuts cleanly... is this normal? It is freshly sharpened

You need to make sure your fence is set up right. It should be slight kicked out like a 1/64 at the top. Sounds like the wood is getting pinched slightly as it goes thorough.

As the wood hits the end of the fence it gets pinched and gets pushed back into the blade. It's more noticible on longer pieces.