Getting started with hollow forms

Ready to try a hollow form for the first time but don't have any tools appropriate to the task. What would be a good hollowing chisel to start with?

Marty.........it depends if you want to start out with hand hollowing or with a hollowing rig. If you go by hand, then Sorby has out some new tools with interchangable tips......the RS2000 system, and you can get handles and arm brace with it, so it is expandable piece by piece. A lot of folks like the Keltons and the Jordan hollowing tools as well as the Rolly Monroe system.

That being said, know that most all systems that are hollowing by hand will beat you up a little at least until you get proficient with them. The best way in my opinion to go is with a captured system like the Jamesion or the Monster system. I have the Monster Articulated system on my Grizzly 18/47 and love it! Pricey up front, but you will never regret it!

I have also heard a few turners who like the new Carter hollow roller setup.......basically a flat surfaced boring bar that is captured between two rollers and that eliminates the sideways torque one gets with hand hollowing.................

If you did a poll with most turners on SMC.........I think hands down most would recommend the Monster system............either captured or articulated........the articulated can accept a larger boring bar available from the company to go deeper than the standard boring bar that comes with the unit...........I think you can safely hollow to 12" deep with it. I have a bar machined by a friend and it allows me to get to about 15" max without too much chatter.

Good luck!

I started hollowing with a set of 5/8" Trent Bosch tools - less than $200 for 3 tool/1 handle set. They were just right for shallow hollow forms (say 3-4" deep) turned without a hollowing rig. Once I got a captured system, I was able to hollow deeper. I use the Trent Bosch set in my Oneway captured system with good results. It was nice to start with a less expensive way to start into hollowing, but in the end I have spent over $800 on hollowing tools. For the same money, I could have bough a combination Monster articulated and captured system.

Knowing what I know now, I probably would have gone for a monster articulated system. The next upgrade would have been a captured system for going deeper.

But, to your original question, if you don't have a straight boring bar with a carbide cutter, I would start there. Then you can get a goose neck cutter to get the underside of the rim of your hollow forms. Remember that the straight boring bar is going to do the vast majority of your work. You can also use a swept back grind on a bowl gouge to get a lot of material out.

Wow, didn't realize it took such an elaborate system!

Would I be wasting my money if I bought the Sorby Hollow Master?

Or maybe I'll just stick to bowls for a while... :rolleyes:

The Hollowmaster is a good start. You will still use it (or any similar tool) even after you get a captured system, because there are a couple cuts that a captured system simply cannot do. It is a very steep learning curve. Practice on wood that is fairly dense. Contrary to what you may think, soft wood is harder to hollow. It's very grabby. I still use my Hollowmaster. Not a lot, but I still use it. I also have the Monster articulated rig, and a few extra bars. Captured is the way to go. THe Monster gives a lot for the dollars you spend. And yes you have to spend quite a bit, but you do get a lot. The bay has an affordable captured rig, that seems to do the job for smaller forms.
As mentioned by others, I'd skip hand held tools for the large part and get any captured system. I have a lot of hand helds that don't get used anymore. The Hollowmaster is the one tool that I still use to cut the shoulder of urns. The captured rigs can't quite get that.
Oh, the main drawback of captured systems is the bars are big, and that means you can't turn a small HF with a small opening. If you want to turn small stuff, a captured rig is not the way to go. Small is like 3 - 4" tall. 1/2 to 3/4" opening.

It doesn't take an elaborate system....but it does make it easier. My first couple hollow forms (approx 6" deep x 5" wide) were hollowed with home made tools formed from allen wrenches. I literally put an allen wrench in a handle and sharpened the tip with a drop nose scraper profile. They work pretty well but take some getting used to.

we all should have

that is started hollowing with xmas ornaments

check out bob's

http://www.rrosand.com/tools.shtml

you can only go 2 inches wide, but you totally get the idea of what it will take at bob's excellent price

There is little doubt, if you do hollow forms, you will eventually own a "system" - articulated or captured. However, in the interim, I think the D-Way hollowing tool is very effective and easy to use. I have personally watched Dave hollow a medium size vessel in about 45 minutes, and left a very nice interior surface. The wall thickness gauge is simple, but effective.

No affiliation except for owning some of his gouges.

David Ellsworth does a lot of hollow vessels through very small openings with very basic tools that he sells.

you can buy the steel and tips from him and make your own handles.

Marty ...

I'm in about the same spot on the learning curve. I bought Kerry Harrison's Simple Hollowing System with one cutter for about $270 -- a small investment compared to Monster. This is an articulated arm system. I've just used it a couple of times to hog out some large bowls -- kind of a trial run before I get to the hollowed form. Based on that limited sample, I think it will be good for forms up to 8 inches or so deep.

Larry

Marty, everyone is different and the tools they use to do hollow forms will vary.

When I started doing HFs, I used a Sorby hand-held and it liked to rip my shoulder apart! Granted, I was totally new at hollowing and did cause a lot of catches but the end result was that I was SO sore that I seriously had to think about if I wanted to continue in the hollowing direction or not! Unfortunately for me, Travis Stinson (fellow Creeker) was creating some beautiful HFs at the time and I just had to be able to turn that kind of art myself!

Soon after I started hollowing, I bought the Monster captured system and that made all the difference in the world to me as far as enjoyment when hollowing! A short time later, I picked up Randy's articulated system and also enjoyed using that! Odd thing is, because I was so used to using the captured system, I still use it for 99% of all my hollowing - including finishing! Really, it's just a matter of what you get used to!

So, as far as what tools to buy... I highly recommend that you get with your local turning club and find out who there is into hollowing. Arrange to visit their shop and try out their hollowing tools/system and find what works best for you!

Remember, this is all turning and turning is supposed to be fun!!

Looking forward to seeing your first HF!!

Marty,
I suggest that you go onto Amazon - books and purchase a copy of David Ellsworth book. First off, it is just a really good book. Second, there is a lot about hollowing, tool making and the like. Along with a good description about how to hollow a vessel. Cost is about $20 on Amazon.

I hollow a lot of vessels and I have made most of my own tools. Way back when....when I first met David at the Davis, CA AAW symposium - he told me he would sell me a set of tools and then proceeded to tell me how to make my own. He explains how in his book. These are hand held hollowing tools.

Next suggestion is to start reasonable small.....maybe 6-7 inches in diameter....and not too tall. The closer to a sphere you make, the easier it is. Start with a reasonable opening and work on making them smaller as time goes on. You need an air compressor to clean out the sawdust. You can do it by hand...but a compressor is much nicer. Stop and clean out the sawdust often.

If you do not want to buy David's book...you local club may have a copy (should have) in the library.

Use green wood - try dry wood later if you want ...but start with green wood.

Hugh

It's fairly easy to make a rig like Jamaison's using 1&1/8 round steel. Easily less than 100$ if you know a welder. Drill the bar end with a 1/2" hole and use different tools mounted on 4" x1/2" bit holders. I made my first 20 years ago when there were no stout rigs for sale. I'm now using Model Deepthroat # 4 and easily go to 18" deep. If you spend any real money do it on a Woodcut cutting tip. It has a limiter like a safety razor and simply will not catch even at 20". Also much faster than any other boring bit. Leave dry wood alone if possible. Good luck!

I think you should learn to do it free hand then you know the basics. John Jordan makes great tools the cutters are in line with the handle so you have less twisting when you are cutting. John has two different sizes.

Thanks for all the comments.

I do have the Ellsworth book and have read about the tools he makes. Haven't considered making my own based on his info but maybe I will. Or I could buy the tools from him directly I suppose.

The D-Way hollowing system looks interesting and reasonably affordable - I watched a video of Dave Schweitzer doing a hollow form with it and it seems pretty easy to use. I like the outrigger to counter the torque, but I don't understand why he wants to run the lathe in reverse; that feels inherently dangerous to me.

In regards to green vs dry wood, do most of you rough turn green, then dry the blank and just final turn the outside? Or do you also do a "finish" hollowing on the inside?

Green to final in one go; outside first, inside last. I use Ellsworth's tools and a Hunter 3 (small stuff) or 5 (larger, up to 8" deep). I bought the shaft+cutter from Ellsworth and turned my own handles.

I learned to hollow from Ellsworth, and believe his style hollowing scrapers are basic for all future hollowing you will attempt. Practicing on smaller open forms where you can see the tools in action will give you a good understanding of the process, then you graduate to closed forms with smaller and smaller openings. I have collected and made many hollowing tools over the years, but now prefer the Monster system augmented with the larger Jordon tool shafts.

Wanna try it out? Be on the cheap? Go get the Benjamin's Best 3 piece hollowing set*. I bought my set for about $35 and still use them to hand hollow my 4-5" hollow forms through a 1/2" hole. They stay sharp fairly long and just plain work. No gauge but that is what calipers are for. I am a big proponent of folks needing to learn hand hollowing before spending the money on a hollowing rig. You need to understand the way the tool works inside and the motion of following the blind interior curve. Then upgrade to a system and you wont get beat up on those stubborn woods. Although truth be known, once you learn to hand hollow correctly, it doesn't beat you up.

For a larger set I bought the Trent Bosch set. These work well and fit in my hollowing rigs just fine too.

Best advise (short of seeking out a mentor) is shape the exterior completely, drill a hole to a point 1/8 of your desired bottom, hollow from the entrance hole to the bottom, blow the shavings/dust out every 30 seconds or so and cut at or just above the center line.

(* throw the super angled one away! Its large bend it a catch monster and virtually useless.)

HI Marty. As an owner with no other attachment to DWay tools I have and occasionally use Dave's system. I think Dave turns in reverse because it allows him a slightly more comfortable stance and posture. The tool works great as long as you don't want to do anything with a very small hole. The cutter is easily sharpened and is replaceable. I did purchase his system to turn in reverse but I would caution anyone who is unable to 'lock' your chuck or face plate to do the same. I have an expensive captured system but often just pick up his tool when I want more of a 'feel' with a smaller type hollow form.

Some "big time" turners like J.P. Fennell and Don Derry turn "backwards" because its more comfortable standing at the lathe, so I tried it. I didn't pursure it because it felt so awkward since I had been hollowing spinning "anticlockwise" for years!

If I remember correctly Dave gives the option of forward or reverse turning with his hollowing rig. Might not hurt to call and talk with him to be sure.

Well I guess I'm the cheapy here, I built my own hollowing rig, and I love it. Have been able to go 10" deep so far but I think it can go a little deeper. Total cost $60 including laser. You need a drill press even a table top will do, a few good drills and a 3/8" tap, not much building skills needed. Attachment 294089

I started with Dave's hollowing tool - was lucky enough to have him looking over my shoulder the first time I used it so the learning curve may have been shortened a bit. Seems like a very reasonable way to get started hollowing and learn the process and the feel of it. It is, or at least was available for either reverse or standard hollowing. As for hollowing in reverse - it seems to me to be much more natural and easier to see and feel what you're doing - but then I'm naturally left handed so I do a lot of things that may seem awkward to right handers. As long as the chuck is secured, there's little that can go wrong; at least it hasn't been a problem so far. I did put together a Jamieson system for deeper hollowing and have even set it up to use in reverse when it seemed like the best solution.

I have a dway hollower. I got the one for reverse turning. This keeps you from reaching across your lathe to hollow in forward. Works great.

Well it looks like I'll be getting a Monster hollowing system. And the PM 3520B that it's attached to... :D More details in about a week...

Marty,
You have some hollowing tools now......lol