Another cutting board glue question

It's been over 40 years since I made a cutting board. My woodworking activity is primarily woodturning.

A friend wants a cutting board and chose Bubinga and Pau Marafim wood, glued up from strips roughly 1"x1".

Searching through some of the numerous threads from the last couple of years it appears that either PU or epoxy glue is often recommended.
I might make two cutting boards and try both type of glue. I have more experience with epoxy than polyurethane, using the latter only for a few outdoor applications.

I'd appreciate any recommendations for specific glue brands/types.

JKJ

I make MANY cutting boards every year. I use Titebond III which is touted to be food safe and strongly water resistant/proof.

I’m sure either would work fine. I have boards that are used regularly that are many years old all made with Titebond three. No failures. This includes and green boards, edge green boards, and inlay boards. Everyone has their favorite but when you find something that works well for you you tend to stick with it.

Titebond III here, only one that came apart and that was my daughter's room mate put it in the dish washer (Doh).

Titebond III also. I've made several dozen and never had a failure. One issue I might suggest is to wipe any exotic wood with MS or denatured alcohol to get rid of any oily surface right before glue-up. Some people may tell you that that doesn't work in the long run because the oils within still mitigate to the surface eventually. I'm not in that camp. I haven't had one fail yet.

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Originally Posted by Steve Eure

Titebond III also. I've made several dozen and never had a failure. One issue I might suggest is to wipe any exotic wood with MS or denatured alcohol to get rid of any oily surface right before glue-up. Some people may tell you that that doesn't work in the long run because the oils within still mitigate to the surface eventually. I'm not in that camp. I haven't had one fail yet.

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Sorry...ignorant...what is MS?

OK after a search I guess MS is mineral spirits?

My bad...

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Originally Posted by Bill Space

Sorry...ignorant...what is MS?

OK after a search I guess MS is mineral spirits?

My bad...

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Yes mineral spirits

Another vote for TiteBond III here. "EPA approved for indirect food contact"... https://www.titebond.lt/titebond-iii...ate-wood-glue/

I have worked a little bit with epoxy. Fully cured it is supposed to be benign, but clean up is not as easy as TB and less than fully cured epoxy is nasty.

I have made many hundreds cutting boards in the last thirty years. I have used original Titebond on every one. They all come with a lifetime guarantee and instructions on how to care for the board. So far the few that have come back had all been through the dishwasher more than once.

Another here that’s only used PVA for decades on cutting boards.

I know the big manufacturers like BooS don’t use epoxy or PU on their blocks. Neither do the boutiques like Grothouse.

I can’t think of a good reason to use epoxy/pu over PVA in this case.

"...I can’t think of a good reason to use epoxy/pu over PVA in this case."

Generally, I agree. Titebond III is, for all intents and purposes, waterproof and it is food-safe. It is THE go-to for these purposes. However, I can think of a case where I might use epoxy instead. Many are now making cutting boards from mixed media. For example, one end of the board might be cast resin and the rest wood. Titebond will work with some resins and metals, but I prefer to use epoxy when working with mixed media.

I'm making a couple right now. I'm going to use epoxy unless talked out of it. As a couple of people mentioned above, people can and do put them in the dishwasher. No matter how much you tell them not to, some people will eventually put it in the dishwasher. That's why I have to keep making some every year.

Dave and Stan,

What brand/type of epoxy?

I read several threads where people who used Titebond had boards come apart with user abuse and a few other problems. Several recommended polyu or epoxy. I wondered if that would be better for exotics. I have some SystemThree.

JKJ

I use TB III, too.

From what I've read, exotics often fail due to the oils that are in the wood. One of the YT shows I follow said that you have to use mineral spirits to wash the fresh cut edges to keep the board from failing down the road.

But, I've also seen some boards fail, due to poor construction methods, like an end grain glued to a rip cut.

John -- There are lots of different epoxies. SystemThree makes some of the best. Which do you have, their "General Purpose Epoxy"? That should work. If I were buying epoxy just for use with cutting boards, and if I were limited to choosing one of SystemThree's resins, I'd pick their G-2 epoxy. I'd pick G-2 over their General Purpose Epoxy for two reasons: First, G-2 is designed to be an adhesive. Whereas, the General Purpose Epoxy is not an adhesive, but can be used as such. Second, G-2 is specially designed for use with oily exotic woods. Once cured, the bond is waterproof. (It's used below the waterline in boat building.)

While I really like SystemThree's products, my most recent epoxy purchase was from Polymer Composites, Inc. (theepoxyexperts.com). I bought their Max GPE Clear epoxy resin over SystemThree's resin because Max GPE is clear and SystemThree's resin is amber. (I'm making linen micarta for knife scales. I didn't want the color of the epoxy to alter the color of the fabric I'd been given for making the scales.) In addition, Max GPE contains UV inhibitors. SystemThree's resins do not. I doubt either of these reasons would apply to making a cutting board. The cutting board won't, hopefully, spend much time in the sun and the glue line won't reveal whether the epoxy was clear or amber in color.

My point is epoxy resins vary widely and should be chosen for their application. For gluing exotic woods into a cutting board, I'd probably go with G-2 (assuming I wasn't allowed to use Titebond III). But, if I were making a 'river table' cutting board, I'd probably go with Max GPE -- simply because I'd want a clear resin for the 'river' and wouldn't want the hassle of using a different epoxy for the rest of the project.

More than you wanted to know, I'm sure.

Stan -- If you use the right epoxy, you should be fine. However, not all epoxies are waterproof. For example, SystemThree's Quick Cure (their 5 minute and 15 minute epoxies) produce water resistant, nor waterproof, bonds. I'm not aware of ANY that would withstand repeated cycles in a dishwasher, are you?

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Originally Posted by David Walser

Stan -- If you use the right epoxy, you should be fine. However, not all epoxies are waterproof. For example, SystemThree's Quick Cure (their 5 minute and 15 minute epoxies) produce water resistant, nor waterproof, bonds. I'm not aware of ANY that would withstand repeated cycles in a dishwasher, are you?

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No, I've been using T-88 on most things. Not based on any science, its just the structural epoxy I usually have in the shop. My goal is not to make items that will stand up to frequent dishwashing, just to make them last longer than they normally would, if the user ignores the instructions. My thinking is that its the heat of a dishwasher that is more likely cause of failure than the water, although the water is what ruins the appearance.

Titebond III.

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Originally Posted by David Walser

…My point is epoxy resins vary widely and should be chosen for their application. …

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Yes, that’s why I asked for specifics. Good info, thanks.

I’ve used a lot of epoxy, various types depending on the application, but not much for wood-to-wood bonds.

Im likely one of the posters who pushes either UF, Epoxy, or PU. The post that says TB original will never fail is right as long as your user treats the board with care. Same "somewhat" with TBIII but that glue is really junk. For day in and day out boards I wouldnt have a problem firing them out with TB original, II, or III, as long as they were fully disclaimed with regards to care (water, dishwasher, etc). But if your going to put any care or high quality wood into the board I'd never run PVA period. It wont hold up to anything other than the most perfectly prepared material, and tender care. Your talking a $300 board, love, and at that point use a better glue anyway.

Titebond III. Never had one fail, no matter how intricate.

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Originally Posted by Stan Calow

No, I've been using T-88 on most things. Not based on any science, its just the structural epoxy I usually have in the shop. My goal is not to make items that will stand up to frequent dishwashing, just to make them last longer than they normally would, if the user ignores the instructions. My thinking is that its the heat of a dishwasher that is more likely cause of failure than the water, although the water is what ruins the appearance.

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Heavy water will have an issue on most PVA's though TBIII I have not tried directly. But anything below III even if you have a glue bottle with a plugged tip, just drop it in a pot of water overnight and it will be clear in the morning. Heat on all of them is the death sentence.

I cant imagine trying to make any wood product that could withstand the dishwasher. Thats a non-warranty situation but a lot of people that use their boards heavily and wash them heavily (meat, chicken, etc) can be pretty hard on a glue up.

I have a few personally and consider us a very heavy user though we always dry them or stand them on edge to dry and they all show their use but thats the purpose. We dont pamper them no matter what. They are not suppose to remain flawless as the day they were new and unused. They are suppose to die a good death to do over-use.

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Originally Posted by Mark Bolton

Heavy water will have an issue on most PVA's though TBIII I have not tried directly. But anything below III even if you have a glue bottle with a plugged tip, just drop it in a pot of water overnight and it will be clear in the morning. Heat on all of them is the death sentence.

I cant imagine trying to make any wood product that could withstand the dishwasher. Thats a non-warranty situation but a lot of people that use their boards heavily and wash them heavily (meat, chicken, etc) can be pretty hard on a glue up.

I have a few personally and consider us a very heavy user though we always dry them or stand them on edge to dry and they all show their use but thats the purpose. We dont pamper them no matter what. They are not suppose to remain flawless as the day they were new and unused. They are suppose to die a good death to do over-use.

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Mark, I have done a few of them, but they're newer. Do you think an end grain board would hold up better to the heavy duty use that you describe? I have a friend with a 1000# smoker & he does meats weekly. Would you suggest heavy duty wood or tight grain or a combination? Maybe epoxy for that kind of use?

End grain will definitely outlast a edge/long grain with heavy chopping but in my mind thats chopping with a cleaver like breaking down whole animals type chopping. Heavy cleaver etc. When I say "show use" Im just talking your average cut marks, some glue joint opening here and there. Maybe some small end checks. But we, nor anyone Ive ever known on average, ever refresh/re-oil boards. They just get used.

I cant imagine the use it would take to hollow out any board edge/long grain or end grain. Would be like all day every day for years and years and at that point you'd be better off with a cookie off a dense tree.

I cant fathom any dense hardwood end grain cutting board NOT holding up to any modern use Ive seen with all this smoker stuff going on for a lifetime. They all likely treat their knives (sharp) better than any board they will own so there wont be much cleaver work lol.

Cutting boards are one of the most over-thought items in the woodworking world in my opinion. Because they are a lot of work, look cool to the maker when freshly sanded/oiled, and under valued (under priced most of the time). Any old board will likely last an eternity for even the most heavy user.

Mark, I'd agree about Smoker guys and blades. My buddy was SO happy when I got a Tormek. Flat stone it after to 4k...