It's definitely a consumer level product but man does it do some cool software tricks! Automatically tracing hand-drawn or printed objects direct on the bed with multiple cameras for example, very slick.
http://www.glowforge.com/
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It's definitely a consumer level product but man does it do some cool software tricks! Automatically tracing hand-drawn or printed objects direct on the bed with multiple cameras for example, very slick.
http://www.glowforge.com/
Very cool, I want one when I grow up!
MARKETING HYPE:eek:
I bought into the hype, if that's what you prefer to call it. I've been following Glowforge since the beginning, and Dan Shapiro the CEO prior to this new company. The product and introductory prices look good to me so I ordered. I'm not sharing my link to $100 off as I'd like to see a civil discussion on the product not a flame the new guy discussion. The product looks to have some distinct advantages over current laser cutters on the market and one large potential downside. If the company goes under the cloud based software, which basically runs the product, could disappear. I can't see that as likely as mainting servers are a minimal cost and I think their plan to charge for premium plans from their catalog should provide for a nice steady stream of income.
Could have sworn we beat this to death already...
One thing I missed on the initial discussion: autofocus (good), small Z-axis capacity (not good). For something with "3D" in the title, it certainly seems biased toward sheet goods.
What do you call a civil discussion? The fact that it's not a printer? Or that many of the things we raised concerns about as far as safety haven't been addressed, at least if we are to believe what's on the website. Comments like "it's as safe as a DVD player" are far from accurate.
On the good side of it, I'm really glad that I'll finally stop getting those calls to take hand drawn drawings and cut cookies for kids out, or maybe the calls to make a one off purse will finally cease.
Or the fact that the price ended up being twice what it was said to be when it was announced? It was said that it's a $2000 3D laser printer, when, in 30 days, it's a $4,000-8,000 laser.
Well, love it or hate it, it may be the (new) redheaded step child of the engraving world but it appears to be here to stay and we as the Sawmill Creek community need to be prepared to receive a potential new user base of GF'ers (maybe we should coin that!?) with a gazillion questions. When I joined the Creek in '07 the first Chinese machines were just starting to appear and the attitude of many of the Western built owners was to sort of look down on those who were willing to buy the "Cheap Chinese" machines. The Creek has changed much since '07 with a huge influx of Chinese laser owners, I wonder if GlowForge will do the same.
40W laser with relatively limited Z, the 3D claim is REALLY pushing the boundaries of honesty, no mention of what cooling system or filtration of by-products in the ad.
If it is truly TEM00 does that mean its an RF tube?
All those choking children in the house when dad does some leather :D
I wonder what your insurance company will say when you tell them you have one in your home.
Software looks nice on the face of it and the styling is clearly aimed at the Apple generation, so guessing the target users are generally impressionable types who want to be hip with a bit of glitter.
It will sell his marketing is very good.
Paul, I'm sure we will. Maybe we can do a sub-forum ;) After all, it's a 40w laser. They don't seem anxious to actually show many photos of the actual machine, or it cutting :) When all the dust settles, it's going to be exactly what we said it would be, a laser engraver with proprietary software. That's not good or bad, it's just exactly what we said it would be, not anything more or less.
"Custom" glass tube. Cooling is "Closed loop self contained internal cooling" and thermo-electric for the Pro version, filtration is a duct out the window - unless you opt for the $500 HEPA/charcoal filter.
Yes, the marketing is very good. I'm really curious what those six things that I need to know are. When I click on the link it just takes me back to the main page.
You can see it all, and in action here :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0R3mMUsHFvU
I missed the earlier thread and link to Glowforge so this is all new to me. What surprised me is that intro video is marketing it like a common household item that stays in the kitchen.
Looking at their FAQ page, there is an entry dated "yesterday" (assuming 9/23/15) that explains how the Glowforge is different than a 3D printer. https://glowforge.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/210898507-How-is-Glowforge-different-from-a-3D-printer-
Glowforge uses subtractive manufacturing while traditional 3D printers use additive manufacturing. A 3D printer builds up material, like plastic filament, layer by layer. With Glowforge, you’ll put a piece of material like leather, wood, or acrylic in the machine and it carves out your product using laser light. The technical name for the category of tools that includes Glowforge is a CNC laser cutter engraver, but that's a mouthful, so we call it a 3D laser printer.
I'm lost here. According to Glowforge, they use "subtractive manufacturing" and therefore refer to their laser as a "3D laser printer" ... because 3D printers use additive manufacturing. If I follow that logic, if I am trying to sell a new medicine but the technical name is a mouthful, I will call it Yummy Sweet Candy and people will automatically know this is not candy, but a bitter medicine that improves your eyesight?
As far as pricing, their Tech Specs page shows the range between $1995 to $4995 and further down the page they do refer to the system as a laser device.
It may have some nice software features, but like others have said, once the fumes start pouring into the kitchen & living room, many of thee new owners will probably want to return them.
My Point is their using a lot of advertising trying to make you believe this is something more then what it is, a cheap laser engraver.Its not a 3d printer, it can't make leather purses by it self. Come on its a 40 watt engraver and nothing more. It might sell to unsuspecting mommies and daddies that want to make a few cool things for there kids, but any one who knows laser engravers isn't gonna fall for it.
added note I guess there entitled to try to make a buck and advertise it anyway they want. Jamie is kinda right. That we who have real laser engravers are taken back a little by this glowforge thing:rolleyes:
If this forum/website is for professionals with 60W+ lasers only then I agree that this product shouldn't be discussed here. It's totally geared toward sheet goods as it only has 1.5" of z clearance and home workshop use. I learned a bit by watching this video (Tested.com). They talk about the tube a bit, but it doesn' mean much to me. I'm just looking for something to play around with in my home workshop and I didn't want to go with a Chinese only company (I'm sure these are made in China but at least it is designed and supported by a US company). I think they've added some great new technology to bring an easy to use product to the home user. The 3d printer marketing line isn't really a claim but it sure creates a lot of controversy. I think they're trying to get people to understand what laser cutters/ engravers are capable of, but they sure are pissing anyone off that already knows what they are.
Jamie, you're missing the point that many have made. It has nothing to do with coming up with a consumer level laser cutting, whether it's 5W or 500W. Doesn't matter. The issue many people have is that there's a lot of things said about it from the people running the company that are just utter non sense. Many of us raised a lot of concerns about the safety (what's going to happen when a 13 year old puts PVC in it and runs it without venting it, and fills the room with the fumes from PVC?), but now the marketing is just insanity. It's money over everything else. Saying "it's as safe as a DVD player" and then telling people in the video "don't use things like PVC" just doesn't add up. You can't just "tell people" not to do something, and then call it as safe as a DVD player. That's like telling people "don't put your fingers near the blade on a band saw" and then proclaiming your bandsaw is as safe as an alarm clock to use.
I have no problem with the machine, it looks pretty cool. However, it's a huge step backwards and forward at the same time. 14:55 seconds run time on the pieces in the video? And you call that a "breakthrough"? That's 4 minutes on a 45W machine anywhere else. In the videos, they keep mentioning all the things "that are so difficult" or "you can't do" with pro model lasers, yet the examples they use aren't true. They talk about material settings being kept in notebooks and managed by users. What? All of our lasers have material databases and you pick it from a list. They talk about not easily being able to move objects around on the table. Not true. We do it on our Trotec all the time. It's VERY easy to do.
Epilog has a camera system that looks at the work too. It's mounted in the lid as well.
So it's just a little disheartening for some users to watch things be said that just aren't actually reflective of reality in order to make people think that other lasers are just so complex and this is the only machine for you, because it's just so simple and does so many things no other lasers will do.
It's not about the laser itself, it's about the ploy to make everyone else's machines look so complex in order to make theirs look so simple, when the facts are that others lasers are really easy to learn too.
Scott watching that video of it cutting that flar up was whoa! no air, man thats a fire hazzard plus.It also looked like the flame was going to burn up the laser head.:eek:Attachment 322082yep let the kids play with it in the kitchen:(
I watched the first one or two minutes, so much BS anyone who has worked with CNC and or lasers knows its all Blue Sky.
If you think the "Cloud" can run a laser, try running one of Autodesk's new Cloud based CAD programs as 123D or Fusion 360. 123D can be ran on your own machine but they encourage you to work online.
In fairness Bert, that was the prototype and it wasn't enclosed and they were showing it in it's infant stage. In the later video, you can see the suction pulling it out.
However, on their website, it says if you run stone or glass, you don't need any exhaust at all. Again, that couldn't be a more inaccurate statement. Anyone that has done much glass are well aware of the "white dust" it makes and what it can do to optics.
I lasted as far as "You don't need the hundreds of dollars worth of red dot alignment" so an $11 mount with beam combiner and a 50 cent diode pack is hundreds of dollars?
hehehehe Scotty ;) now imagine what that dust will do to their lungs ;)Quote:
aware of the "white dust" it makes and what it can do to optics.
In effect it is yet another jumble of Chinese parts put together in a nice case marketed for people that believe hype. NOTHING that machine can or does do hasn't been done before but that won't stop it selling...it will sell by the boat load to people that think you can buy a machine and make money like Bill Gates when in reality it's no more than an accident waiting to happen.
This is what happens when marketing gurus get involved in subjects they don't actually know much about and sell stuff to people who wouldn't normally be trusted with plastic scissors !
I don't think I'm missing any points. I'm not really interested in marketing lines so choose not to talk about them. I can't even say I've seen that line regarding DVD players. Was it in the video? I'm interested in whether I should be relooking at the Zing 16, anc cancel this order. Is that a fair comparison, pricewise it doesn't appear so to me? If not a fair comparison what machines are? The flare up point made in an earlier post seems valid to me as they don't have an air compressor line. You mention that other 45W can do the same thing so point noted in my comparison, although as it's just in my shop for fun use it doesn't effect me as that kind of time delay would if I was comparing manufacting level machines.
Please fill in the blank:
Trotec = $__________
Glowforge = $1,995
Epilog w/ Camera = $__________Quote:
Epilog has a camera system that looks at the work too. It's mounted in the lid as well.
Glowforge = $1,995
The question of whether or not this will be a product that sells:
As of 8:10 PM CST on the first day of their campaign.
"$857,958 pre-ordered
of our $100,000 goal (857% funded)"
I'm not sure why this laser gets folks so worked-up, but it looks like it will be a thing.
:)
No it's not...if a $25,000 SLC Tube from GSI won't give a pure TEM00 wavefront then I'm pretty sure a $100 chinese tube won't either!Quote:
Laser Quality — TEM00 tube produces smaller spot size and greater power density, increasing engraving precision and cutting speeds
Because last year I spent close to $1.5 M on making sure I complied with safety regulations and ensuring my staff don't get hurt or killed by the job they do so that when a kid who shouldn't be left home alone buys this thing and trys cutting PVC and ends up in the ER my day job will get harder and more expensive yet again to ensure people are safe all because a new supplier decided that they could make a lot of money from people based on marketing hype.Quote:
I'm not sure why this laser gets folks so worked-up
That is why I get worked up...
Matt, do you read what I said? I said it's a pretty cool machine, the problem is with the marketing that's just not true. My point is that they could sell millions by telling the truth, there's zero need to hype it. It's that part that rubs people the wrong way. Why do the compare it to a DVD player? To make people fell like it's safe. Period.
If you want to play the comparison game, we can do that. They keep talking about how profitable the machine can be for you, so if you want to compare a $4000 MSRP machine to a Trotec that's $25,000, we can do that, and the Trotec will bury that $4000 machine in every single metric you want to measure, as well as the amount of money you'd be making by creating your purses, satchels, and wallets.
If they would scrub the site from saying things that aren't accurate, most all of would be saying "cool".
"11. Safe for schools
Under US Food & Drug Administration regulations, Glowforge Basic is categorized as a Class 1 laser, like a DVD player, so no special precautions are required to use it. The Pro model is Class 4 device like other lasers, and requires additional precautions."
Sounds straightforward to me.
Laser Class definitions are a measure of beam safety not overall machine safety. The class is defined by the ability to access unguarded laser beams nothing more.
A 1mw 532nm Green Laser pointer is safe according to it's Class I rating...right up until you shine it into the cockpit of an aircraft
Oooooh. I just got an email from a company called Trackr. They make little keyfob like devices designed to help you locate lost keys and wallets and pets and whatnot. Their email says they have teamed with GlowForge, advertising that you can now customize your Trackr with your GlowForge in your own home!!! (seriously!) A deal! I can buy my $17 Trackr and by adding a $1700 GlowForge to the order I can use the GlowForge to customize my Trackr!!! As they might say in the UK Dave...."Brilliant!" <grin>
Where is that credit card????
hahahahha I guess I've got cynical over the years brother...my old Dad taught me "If it sounds too good to be true it very usually is" and sadly in this case I think he's right :)
Well, goodness -- anything can be misused.
What part of this is not true?
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?235694-Glowforge-launched-today&p=2471214#post2471214
Also, please see post 28.
What class are the machines already in schools?
Big difference in a school and a kitchen table. You don't have a 4 yr old sister next to you at school where an adult is always present.
I through IIIb usually although it's the suggestion that the machine is "Safe" per se....that generates a system of acceptance that accidents cannot happen.Quote:
What class are the machines already in schools?
Most blu-ray players have a 1.5 to 3 watt 445NM diode...the way they are constructed means to get at that diode and cause harm with it is close to impossible (the cartridge is sealed and the drivers are linked on a ribbon cable) so the chances are you would have to be quite skilled to get to the bit that can do harm. Not the case with a laser, we have no blink reflex to the 10,600 wavelength so any minor accident can be serious right off the bat.
It's the potential harm that is the problem
A handgun is safe..it's an inanimate object so much so that millions of good Americans own them. By the same token and test a W53 Nuclear Warhead is also safe right up until it isn't. Then potentially millions can die.
What I'm saying is the test of safety isn't a valid comparison,no more than comparing a Glock 17 to a W53.
Or as Eric Schlosser would call it "The illusion of safety" :)
OK then. :)
Also:
"Because Glowforge is powered by the cloud, it’s an important question. Long term, we’re working on some cool solutions, but short term, here’s a commitment we’ll make right now: When we launch Glowforge, we’ll also release a copy of the firmware under GPL."
http://glowforge.com/gpl-licensed-open-source-firmware-for-glowforge/
A thought just occurred to me. The Glowforge cuts out flat parts to construct a 3-D object and they call it a 3-D laser printer. Does that mean a 4 X 8 CNC router is a 3-D cabinet printer? :rolleyes: