Need 16" J/P advice

Hello all, I have decided to pull the trigger on a 16" J/P. I am trying to decide between a Felder AD741 or a Hammer A3-41 and was hoping to find some experienced users advise. Specifically, is the AD741 worth the premium. I'm at focused on build quality, accuracy, reliability, ease of use, reliability just over quality. I realize one big difference is power drive on the AD 741, but setting that feature aside, what else would make the AD741 worth the cost. ?

In a side note narrowed down to these units based on the desire for the silent power cutter. I had considered the Mimimax FS41 Elite with Tersa head. Any thoughts in that decision would be great too. I have heard great things about the Tersa too and the Mimimax is quite a bit less then the Fleders. But that silent power cutter looks awesome.

The A3-41 will do as good a job as most would need. Can't go wrong with either one. That's a lot of lumber in the price difference.

I have been researching jointer/planers for a few months now and from everything I can tell, for me that is, there really isnt any need to step up the cost to a Felder unit over a Hammer. Im looking at the A3-31 but I imagine it would be the same situation for the A3-41. They are extremely nice units.

There will be a difference. Whether you need those differences only you can determine. My take is that a jointer table that is on hinges is a potentialy problematic design so build quality is important. Country of origin will be different but that isn't so important. Quality of castings, thickness and ribbing of tables, and grinding is. The Felder or MM will be ground to a higher level as that is part of what you are paying for. Look hard at the table and hinge design and compare. Tables that don't return to co planar or aren't ground flat are no fun. Not saying the hammer won't fill the bill, but there are differences. Felder recently ran a special on the 941 for about 1000 more than the 741. That was the deal. Dave

Since you mentioned the Minimax FS41, I will say that I recently bought the FS41 Classic with Tersa head and I am thrilled with it. I didn't get the Elite because I didn't want the bar sticking out the back from the center mounted fence. I also didn't see the need to spend the money on the Elite.

I have owned 6" and 8" jointers with traditional knives and also one with a spiral head. The spiral head is nice but the finish with the Tersa knives is much better. You can't really compare knife changing between Tersa and spiral heads, but I did have to spend quite a while with a torque wrench making sure the cutters on the spiral (there are a lot on a 16" head!) were adjusted properly. The Tersa system is ridiculously easy and you can have different knives for different jobs. Changeover only takes 60 seconds or so. No fiddling with adjustments at all.

One other difference, I believe, between the Classic and the Elite is that the Elite has two posts supporting the planer bed, whereas the Classic has one post. Mine is rock solid but I am a hobbiest and don't run thousands of board feet, so I don't expect this to be an issue.

I am very pleased with the quality of my machine (and my SC4 Elite table saw). I don't see how I would have gotten any more bang for my buck.

I have the MM FS41Elite with a 3-knife Tersa journal. It is the only J/P I have every used and owned so I can't really compare it to anything. I've had mine for 10 years or so and it has been wonderful and a pleasure to use. Knife blade changes are a piece of cake. I am also a hobbyist so I don't run the J/P all that much and I suspect it will outlast me! I would definitely keep MM on your list but the Hammer and Felder are all good products. You really can't go wrong with any of them.

The SilentPower cutterhead is REALLY nice. You can have a normal-volume conversation while it's running...

The inserts on the Felder Silent Cutter are very long lasting. For a hobbiest - you're likely going to get years before you need to change them. 16" machines are really big - so more beef is always better - think about face jointing half of a tree.... The AD741 was at the IWF here in Atlanta and I spent about an hour looking at it. I'm sold..but don't have the space for one now. I have the MM combo with the Tersa - and knife changes are way faster with a Tersa - but if you don't have to change them.....then it's not really an issue. And BTW: Power Drive is really nice.

I have the AS-31 with a byrd head. Bought it right before they offered the silent power cutter head. I havn't rotated the carbide inserts yet. I'm a hobbiest but fairly active and the inserts last a long time. Think years, at least with my usage. I'd love to have the 16 in version of this J/P.

I have a 2,000 lb jointer and after using it, I'd cry if I had to go back to something smaller. For something like this, the accuracy and structural integrity you get in a bigger heavier machine is rather important. I've never used a combination machine like that, but I'd guess that the real difference in those two machines goes far beyond the listed features on the spec sheet. As was said above, the kicker is whether or not you need this difference. Any chance you can get your hands on both? (Or all 3 if you consider the MM?)

I'm not saying anything bad at all about the Hammer as I've never run any of their machines and plenty of people seem to be very happy with them, but there's more to a jointer than just the motor size and the table lifting mechanism.

Like David Kumm said, AD741 finish/build quality is better than Hammer A3-41, infeed/outfeed table is longer. Felder silent power cutterhead gives absolute smooth finish, and it is quiet. Power drive is really really nice. If the AD941 special (power drive, silent power spiral cutterhead, and comfort guard, just 1000 more than AD741) is still there, I would strongly recommend AD941, cause there are some nice features that AD741 does not have.

I have a Minimax CU 410 Elite S which has their 16" J/P. It is a great machine and my third jointer, second J/P. The Tersa cutter head is quiet enough to talk over until you turn on the dust collector at which point the vacuum increases the cutterhead noise. The Tersa is economical and leaves a superb finish when using M42 knives.

If you have looked at all three machines then you know how much larger the table surfaces are on the Minimax. The castings are also built heavier. When it comes to machines like this I like the beef. The Minimax will not leave you wanting but it will leave money in your pocket for knives or your next machine purchase.

The Felders are fine machines, but I also recommend you check out the MiniMax/SCM alternative. I'm a happy owner of the FS350 and if I had the money at the time, the larger 16" would have been in my shop. I used a friend's 16" a number of years ago (deceased 'Creeker Mark Singer's) while visiting and that was one sweet machine.

I'm also a fan of the Tersa cutter system. Spiral may have noise advantages and some smoothness advantages with certain gnarly stock, but Tersa is a dream to use and adjust.

Creeker Sam Blasco is the rep for MiniMax if you want to learn more about them to compare to the others you are considering.

I went through a similar process last year. I already owned a MM sliding table and bandsaw. I looked at the MM FS41 Elite S and the Felder AD941. Went with the Felder for two main reasons. One is what Jim outlined above, noise and smoothness of the spiral head. Since my shop is in the basement, noise is important to me.

The other reason, which may not help you, was that Felder was local to me and I liked the idea of local support.

I did not consider Hammer for the reasons already outlined. I wanted more mass, better fit and finish and overall quality.

I will mirrow what most others said above namely David Kumm.

I went throught the same process about two years ago now. At first i was just thinking Hammer or Mini Max. Then i realized the step up to the AD741 was not all that much money in the grand scheme of things. I figured i planned on having the machine for many many years and whats a few thousand more dollars.

I actually had placed a order for the AD741 the realised the new AD741 was nothing more than a old Hammer A3-41. I confirmed this with my sales person to be true and the case. At this point it was clear i needed to step up to the AD941 if i wanted the quality machine the AD741 was prior. They gave me the holiday sale price and that is what i did.

I cant stress what David said up thread about build quality to cast tables so forth and so on. Now having had and used my machine extensively if it where any lighter duty i would be really really disapointed. Imop the AD941 is just barely robust enough for the maxhines intended use.

This is only one mans oppion others may vary.

I was talking to my Felder/Hammer rep the other day and they were saying since the tables are so big and heaby on the 16" j/p, the tables would come out of adjustment more often than on the 12". Has anyone had this issue come up? I am more than likely going with a 16" but was just curious as to everyone's experience.

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Originally Posted by Eric D Matson

I was talking to my Felder/Hammer rep the other day and they were saying since the tables are so big and heaby on the 16" j/p, the tables would come out of adjustment more often than on the 12". Has anyone had this issue come up? I am more than likely going with a 16" but was just curious as to everyone's experience.

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That sounds like someone who has a bunch of 12" j/p machines to sell. Can you imagine Felder or Minimax, or any other company building 16" machines that came out of adjustment all the time? They'd go out of business.

"Three Thumbs Up" to Mr. Evans's comment... ^^

Thank you all for all the comments. They were very helpful. I narrowed the choice between the AD741 and the FS41 Elite. I really like those Fleder units. The silent power head looks awesome. I have been looking at slides too. Love the K700SP. Man Felder makes great videos. SCM should learn from them. The Mimimax machines are is also very solid. Maybe not quite as refined but just as good it appears to be. Not drop off in quailty. I just don't see a reason to spend what would be several thousand more for the Felder. I decided to order a FS41 Elite and a SC4 Elite at the same time. With the money I'm saving I can start looking at bandsaws. And still have money left over.
Thanks again to everybody's comments.

MM20 or MM24 for band saw.... :D LOL :)

Congratulations, James! That's going to be an awesome combination. I can tell you that for me, the MM Slider and MM J/P in my shop are a pleasure.

I am doing the same research James F (OP) was doing.. amybe can revise this to post to include the saw shaper too.. My decision: Felder KF700 2800mm + Felder AD741 Power Drive, Silent Power.. Then Sam B reconnected with me (he almost got me a few years ago when I picked up a used Robland) Sam reminded me same thing my dad said.. Tersa is great.. So I am now considering ST4 Elite 2600mm + FS41 Elite. Im in Europe until end of the year then back in Calif. and might have opportunity to visit SMC factory in a couple weeks. In any case my question(s) (1) MM with a hand crank for the planer table vs Felder power drive,, for a active 1 man hobby shop (maybe small production from time to time) I am torn, regardless of what I decide on tersa vs spiral power drive sure seems nice.. I have owned a lot of planers and cranking was not my favorite thing to do.. (2) MM 2600 slide on ST4e vs Felder 2800mm slide,,, any comments?? (3) MM Shaper hood vs Felder, at first look Felder seems better with micro adjust locks back in place not to mention the exchangeable spindles with high speed option.. Any comments appreciated

Hi Cliff, yes power drive is very nice to have.

As to the table length on the slider, I have a 50 inch one and don't have a use for anything larger, it all depends upon your work.

Shaper hood, yes the Felder drops right back in place without adjustment, very handy. The interchangeable spindle will allow you to use a 30mm spindle so you only but one groover for the saw/shaper, as well as being able to use 30mm bore cutters. Those go on sale a couple of times each year, saving you a stack of money. Most of the cutters in the world are metric bore.

Regardless, you'll enjoy either machine.............Rod.