Tablesaw, Repair or Repalce

Hello all,

So the motor on my Craftsman 113 went out, and I am not sure if I should be attempting to repair, or replace the motor, or if it is time to replace the saw all together.

The motor is tripping two different 20amp breakers, and am I am not sure what the problem is, I started taking it apart, but only got so far as I dont have a gear/bearing puller. I did find that the bearings looks to be quite dry (shame on me for not oiling them sooner), but still seem to spin freely/smoothly. I am not entirely sure what the issue is yet and if its fixable.

But it has me thinking, should I just upgrade from the 3/4 HP motor, to a new 1hp or possibly 2hp?

But do I really want to dump another 200-300$ into this saw, which still needs a few other upgrades to really be solid or should I just upgrade to something new.

I am looking at something under or close to 1000$ possibly, maybe the Laguna F1, or Grizzly0771z, but I haven't fully committed to anything yet.

The Craftsman lacks a riving knife, and I would need to spend more to get a splitter or shark guard, I also need to do something about alignment issues (I installed a set of PALS, but I need to wallow out the trunnion holes as I have no adjustment available so they arent helping) as well as, do something about the tilt adjustment, which has a whole lot of play.



So what is yall's opinion, should I bite the bullet and upgrade to a new saw, or put money into the old craftsman.

I'd check the switch assembly and the power cord first. If those are OK ... get the motor tested at a repair shop.

Spinning freely. Maybe it is a bad capacitor. $20 fix.

MK

I actually spent about an hour trying to find a local repair shop, that worked on small electric motors, and not just huge industrial stuff, and struck out. Probably going to keep trying, and go that route for now.

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Originally Posted by Mikail Khan

Spinning freely. Maybe it is a bad capacitor. $20 fix.

MK

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Bad cap or stuck centrifugal switch. Going with a Grizzly or Laguna 'hybrid' would be a step up IMO, not a lateral move. One of those might be all the saw you'll ever need if you don't work with thick hardwoods. I had one of the Sears 113.xxxx saws years ago. I think it just uses a common 56 frame motor so you may be able to pick up a used or even new for not a lot of $$. Make sure it turns the correct direction or is reversible. I know of no way to add a true riving knife to your saw but shark guard would be an option or a shop made splitter in a blade insert. Kind of depends on your wishes and pocketbook.

Sounds like you are ready for an upgrade to a saw with a riving knife. Along with what ever other upgrades you can swing at this time.
In time you will out grow that machine and THEN have a good idea of what upgrades you want next. Rinse and repeat until you no longer feel the need to upgrade
Normal and natural progression as your experience grows. You will reach a point where you are happy and satisfied with your table saw, just won't necessarily be the same point as other people. Some people the Sears works, some are ShopSmith people, some are SawStop, some are old ARN, and then some are Martins only
Good Luck
Ron

Sounds like it has bronze bushings not ball bearings. I would dump it for that reason alone.
Bill D

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Originally Posted by Nick Costa

I actually spent about an hour trying to find a local repair shop, that worked on small electric motors, and not just huge industrial stuff, and struck out. Probably going to keep trying, and go that route for now.

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Same around here. They're all gone.

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Originally Posted by Mikail Khan

Spinning freely. Maybe it is a bad capacitor. $20 fix.

MK

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I hope you haven't taken things too far apart. Does the motor hum or vibrate when power is applied? If so then it cold easily be a $20 capacitor. There are so many Emerson / Craftsman saws; some quite good, some pretty flimsy. Can you give us a picture or the whole model number?

Beyond extremely simple repairs like replacing a capacitor, having a shop repair a small motor is just not economical. Even having a shop replace the capacitor is probably going to cost half of what the motor is worth & then you still have an old motor.

Does this saw do everything you want or would a newer saw actually help you be more productive? A new Saw Stop would be great but it sounds like your budget isn't going to allow it. But spending to replace something that does everything you need isn't really a wise idea either.

For a grand you could find a used Powermatic 66 with a splitter or a Unisaw (assuming you have 240v). If you do go with a hybrid and you only have a 120v circuit make sure there's nothing else on it (like basement lights) and that it's a 20 amp circuit. That was the problem in my father's basement. He had 5 basement lights tied into the outlets. When you pushed a motor just a little too far, poof, everything went dark. I'm just pointing this out so you don't spend $1000 on a new saw and then find you still need an electrician to wire in a new circuit.

Personally I would get a new or newer saw. When I went from my jobsite saw to a full cabinet saw the extra surface area just so nice. I don't know what size your Craftsman is but if it's one of the smaller ones I think the only thing you will regret is waiting so long.

I agree with Alex.
For years I struggled with a Craftsman saw like yours, Tuning the machine and adjusting the trundles to align the miter slot, is enough reason to get a cabinet saw. I have a Unisaw but a Powermatic 66 is equally good.
John J

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Originally Posted by glenn bradley

Same around here. They're all gone.



I hope you haven't taken things too far apart. Does the motor hum or vibrate when power is applied? If so then it cold easily be a $20 capacitor. There are so many Emerson / Craftsman saws; some quite good, some pretty flimsy. Can you give us a picture or the whole model number?

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I have it somewhat far apart, it does more than Hum (so I dont think its the capacitor or just the capacitor), it will start to spin then will trip the breaker very quickly, I tried it on 2 different dedicated 20amp circuits and it tripped both. I think if anything it might be dirty / bad or dirty Centrifugal switch, I just can't get it apart enough to get to the switch, I need to get a gear puller or bearing puller, to get the sides off it, rather than just hitting it harder. I sort of paused though, instead of just starting to buy more tools (Crazy I know right...), and started to think about how much Time/Money I wanted to continue to sink into this saw.

The last time it tripped the breaker, there was the smallest wisp of smoke as well, which is what prompted me to stop trying to run it, and start trying to figure out what the heck is wrong.


It is an older craftsman table saw Model number 113.27610, and the Motor is a 3/4hp Craftsman Capacitor Motor, Ballbearing, 3450RPM 9.3amps, Model 115 7167.

It still does have an Old square tin Aerovox Capacitor, that I could probably replace, but I didn't want to start replacing things that werent broken, and break it further, and then not know what the problem really is.

I thought I had gotten super lucky, as I found someone parting out a slightly newer Craftsman, and was going to grab the 1hp motor off that for 50$, but it appears it is being shipped to TX already, so someone else was faster... oh well.

If anyone knows of a repair shop in Southwest Chicago-land, that isnt going to charge as much as a new motor, I am all ears.

no riven knife? I like safety features!

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Originally Posted by Andrew Pitonyak

no riven knife? I like safety features!

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Aside from Euro produced saws, riving knives are a relatively recent addition to North American design saws and the OP's unit was build long before things moved in that direction.

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Nick, I'm not sure what the best way to go here is...even "cheap" motors are not inexpensive these days and non-industrial motor repair is clearly a challenge, too. Unless you really covet that particular saw, given its age, it's probably hard to justify putting a bunch of money into it. Perhaps keep your eye open on the various sales sites for a used motor that's of the correct frame type since a lot of the kinds of brick and mortar shops that used to sell that kind of thing have all but disappeared. But personally...I'd likely be considering a new saw; either "new new" or "new to me", depending on what you can come up with.

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Originally Posted by Jim Becker

Aside from Euro produced saws, riving knives are a relatively recent addition to North American design saws and the OP's unit was build long before things moved in that direction.

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Was not that long ago. OK, I am pretty old now, so I don't feel like I have owned my "new" table saw for very long, but, I replaced my table saw because it was missing a few standard safety features. Any recent saw has some pretty decent safety features. I ended up with a sawstop, but it is long outside of warranty at this point. Replaced the run and the start capacitor. Not sure which was bad but the caps were cheap.

I would also want to keep a saw that can handle a Dado blade (or similar functionality). I strongly prefer that to doing it with a router. I think that the European Sliders do not support a Dado blade because they consider it unsafe. Don't remember why, but I am sure they have their reasons! (so not being snippy about it).

I used some fake splitter thing that worked pretty well that I installed behind the blade before I had a riven knife, but I feel much better knowing that it is there.

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Originally Posted by Andrew Pitonyak

Was not that long ago. .

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The Craftsman 113 dates to the 1980s.

I do agree with the desirability for safety features, of course...

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Originally Posted by Bill Dufour

Sounds like it has bronze bushings not ball bearings. I would dump it for that reason alone.
Bill D

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WHY? We had a fan motor in our old furnace that had oil lite bushings. It ran 27/7/365, except for servicing and power outages for 38 years. Unfortunately the BB motor in the outdoor unit didn't last anywhere as long.

Nick, where are you located. If near Portland,OR I have a extra 113 motor.

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Originally Posted by Michael J Evans

Nick, where are you located. If near Portland,OR I have a extra 113 motor.

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I appreciate it, but I am in the Chicago Burbs, so a little ways away.

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Originally Posted by Bruce Wrenn

WHY? We had a fan motor in our old furnace that had oil lite bushings. It ran 27/7/365, except for servicing and power outages for 38 years. Unfortunately the BB motor in the outdoor unit didn't last anywhere as long.

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And the furnace I have in the shop, which I got out of an old house about 20 years ago is at least 50 years old, with its original motor. Just bushings.

You can buy a motor at Harbor Freight fairly cheap. 1 1/2HP is the bare minimum for a table saw.

I started out 35 yrs ago with a similar saw, the fence was horrible, it was woefully underpowered and therefor very unsafe. I would suggest you think about the value & safety of the saw before spending any money.

If you’re budget is limited, there are newer models you can pick up used for little more then the cost of a motor.

Here are a few things to look for in a table saw:

1. Cast iron top
2. Cast iron trunnions, mounted to top, not frame.
3. Biesmeyer type fence
4. Induction motor

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Originally Posted by Robert Engel

Here are a few things to look for in a table saw:

1. Cast iron top
2. Cast iron trunnions, mounted to top, not frame.
3. Biesmeyer type fence
4. Induction motor

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#2 might cause confusion. cabinet mounted trunions are preferable to table mounted, but a saw with table mounted will likely be less expensive.

Watch for a PM66 or Unisaw in excellent condition.

Most likely your motor will have two capacitors. One for starting and one for running. If you say it's tripping the breaker even after spinning the motor to help it get going it could be the run capacitor that's bad. My suggestion is if you want to repair this motor get yourself a cheap multimeter. Just confirm that it has a capacitor measuring function. Harbor Freight has one for just over $20. Then you can measure the caps and the motor coils. It doesn't take too much skill to learn how to use one and you'll find plenty of uses for it over the years.

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Originally Posted by Robert Engel

You can buy a motor at Harbor Freight fairly cheap. 1 1/2HP is the bare minimum for a table saw.

I started out 35 yrs ago with a similar saw, the fence was horrible, it was woefully underpowered and therefor very unsafe. I would suggest you think about the value & safety of the saw before spending any money.

If you’re budget is limited, there are newer models you can pick up used for little more then the cost of a motor.

Here are a few things to look for in a table saw:

1. Cast iron top
2. Cast iron trunnions, mounted to top, not frame.
3. Biesmeyer type fence
4. Induction motor

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More cabinets have been built using that series of saw than any other. You ask why? Because back in the day everybody had a Sears charge card. Ten bucks a month for the next two years, and you could have a table saw. In 1984, in one purchase, I bought table saw, radial arm saw, band saw and drill press. In the following years, I made enough signs from styrafoam to not only pay for saws, but also a couple of Buicks, plus house payments

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Originally Posted by Jim Becker

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Nick, I'm not sure what the best way to go here is...even "cheap" motors are not inexpensive these days and non-industrial motor repair is clearly a challenge, too.
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I guess it's been a while since I've looked at motor prices. You're not kidding about "cheap" motors not being cheap, around $200 for a 1 h.p. motor. That favors a new saw. I was able to pick up an old 1/2 h.p. motor for $25 off Craigs List but that sort of thing requires patience and luck. My Craftsman saw had an open drip proof motor, dust could get to the motor's innards.

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Originally Posted by Curt Harms

I guess it's been a while since I've looked at motor prices. You're not kidding about "cheap" motors not being cheap, around $200 for a 1 h.p. motor. That favors a new saw. I was able to pick up an old 1/2 h.p. motor for $25 off Craigs List but that sort of thing requires patience and luck. My Craftsman saw had an open drip proof motor, dust could get to the motor's innards.

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Yea, I was actually looking at this recently because I have an old HF 14" bandsaw in my garage that a friend left with me when he moved to Idaho and it needs a motor so I can clean it up and sell it.

I'm getting old. I can remember when Harbor Freight sold Century electric motors. I think they were made in Mexico or some other non Chinese factory. A 5hp motor cost less than $100 bucks. If I remember correctly they had a 2hp and 3hp as well. I still have that 5hp kicking around somewhere. It's been on more than one air compressor over the decades.

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Originally Posted by Nick Costa

It is an older craftsman table saw Model number 113.27610.

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That is a nice older Craftsman and they seem to go for about $100 if in working order. I have Grandpa's version that he bought new. He got the fence option (which is poor) and added his own motor. The motor has oil cups so I await an opportunity to find a cheap motor and turn this into a crosscutting station; very small footprint.

Attachment 436508

I have tried a few times but, they bring so little money I just haven't been able to part with it. Your idea of finding some other clunker with a decent motor at a garage sale is a good one. The motor running one of my shop made tools was off a saw that I got for $40 at a yard sale and junked.