The renowned Alan Peters worked the shank of his professional career, if not all of it, with Record hand planes.
Let us know if he appeared to be hamstrung to you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4N0KHV0n1g
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The renowned Alan Peters worked the shank of his professional career, if not all of it, with Record hand planes.
Let us know if he appeared to be hamstrung to you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4N0KHV0n1g
+1 for Sandy's comment. And actualy if the wood is behaving, not even your smoother as to take such a thin shaving! Thin shaving where it doesn't belong, is just a waist of time! And also a great plane doesn't have to be a new expansive plane, any of the early type Stanleys, Miller Falls etc are as good or better than the new LN/LV and there vallue, not money wise but quality wise is the same!
Cerritos College teaches a semester course in hand tools. Over that semester, the students learn how to sharpen, set up, and use hand tools. They build a project with nothing but hand tools.
For chisels, the school recommends the Irwin blue handle. For planes, they used to recommend Record, but now recommend older used Stanley planes.
If they required students to buy LN planes and chisels, they would never hold the course because they wouldn't be able to get a quorum of students (there's a minimum number of students or the class is cancelled). It's hard enough to get people to purchase everything needed for that class. There's a lot more than just the chisels and planes - there's also sharpening equipment, marking gauges, scrapers, etc., etc. And then there's the cost of wood.
Students really like the hand tools class but cost prevents some from taking it. And that's with state tuition, maybe $120 for the semester class.
Mike
Mike do the school have a bank of tools that the students can borrow/rent for the class?
I know that there is some school who offer some tools to be used by students.
Yes and no. The school has hand tools, but they're for the use of all students in the school. If some of the hand tool students took the tools for the hand tool class, none would be available for other students in other classes. Also, the school doesn't have that many planes (for example) - just a couple of each size.
Part of the learning in that class is that you have a plane and they go through how to set it up (flatten the sole, for example). You come out of the class with a prepared plane (and other tools). And you learn how to use the tools. It's a good class but it is somewhat expensive because of all the tools and equipment.
Of course, if someone has been doing woodworking for a while and just wants more instruction in hand tools, it's generally not as bad because they often have many of the tools.
When I took the class there were maybe three students who came to class with LN planes and chisels. That's out of maybe 20 students in the class. All of the LN people were professional people (I remember one was a CPA and one was an engineer) who were taking the class on the weekend.
Mike
[I'll add a comment that I feel very fortunate to have been able to attend Cerritos. The instructors are very knowledgeable and there were a wide variety of courses. The courses are directed towards preparing students to work in industry so it's mostly power tool oriented. There are two paths through the classes, one for cabinets (like kitchen cabinets) and one for furniture. I never took any of the cabinet classes but they have some amazing equipment targeted at that area - equipment that takes sheets of melamine and cuts it automatically based on the CAD specifications. Also, CAD classes. And they just added some CNC equipment that will do amazing stuff.
On the furniture side, there's a wide variety of classes - tables, chairs, chests of drawers, carving, veneering, hand tools, and I don't know what else.
Unfortunately, with the budget problems in CA, they no longer offer weekend classes, only classes during the week and in the evening.]
Charles
You love to cite well-known woodworkers, as if they prove a point for you. What point are you trying to prove here? Alan Peters used machinery more than handtools. He was damn good with handtools, and could make them sing, but he used a LOT of powertools (including power routers) and LOTS of heavy duty machinery. Read "Cabinetmaking - the professional approach". I have. Further more, that Youtube clip does not show Alan using any handplanes, especially Record handplanes (yes I know he favoured a #7 ... incidentally, he had other handplanes as well). Have you watched the full DVD version of that clip. I have. :)
Regards from Perth
Derek
Of course not - but there's a big difference between an experienced person that knows how to diagnose and fix problems with a new or used handplane and beginners.
Heck, you could theoretically grind a screwdriver into a perfectly usable chisel, provided you were willing to heat-treat it and spend zero dollars on a critical woodworking tool. But that doesn't mean I'd recommend that procedure to a beginner.
Of course he used power equipment. So what? So do 99.99% of the professional woodworking crowd.
The issue being discussed in this thread is how to spend a finite amount of money. You've received a lot of the tools you own at no charge. Having to budget tool purchases is something you don't have to worry about. If you want something, it's either given to you in return for an internet review or you simply buy it.
Is an L-N a 'better' plane than an old Record? Why, yes it is. Does that mean one has to have an L-N to do good work? Why, no it doesn't.
Mmm ... Charlie, showing your colours again - as soon as I point out your broken record, you answer with another - no, if I want something, I do not go out and write a review. That is slander, by the way.
It is impossible to miss your posts on a forum since they all say the same thing - usually something dismissive.
Regards from Perth
Derek
It's simple David. Some people have to work wood under economic constraints.
Another truth is that a lot of people spend healthy sums on tools and have almost nothing left over to use to buy wood.
I don't think somebody has to be of the caliber of Alan Peters to coax reasonable performance out of a Record handplane. It's beats the hell out of nothing.
Well....
It was an interesting thread until the guy with too much caffeine showed up and started making things personal.
Can we calm down and behave like decent adults?
It's simple David. Some people have to work wood under economic constraints.
Another truth is that a lot of people spend healthy sums on tools and have almost nothing left over to use to buy wood.
I don't think somebody has to be of the caliber of Alan Peters to coax reasonable performance out of a Record handplane. It's beats the hell out of nothing. Will a Record take a half thou. off a block of Ebony? Nope, probably not. For a lot of us though this is not an angst inducing moment requiring the spending of great sums of money on a plane that will.