Ok, I got it. Thanks Chemmy!
One quick note just so I am not missing anything. It is done in this order, right?
FS
Dye
French Polish w/ Blonde or Platinum Shellac
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Ok, I got it. Thanks Chemmy!
One quick note just so I am not missing anything. It is done in this order, right?
FS
Dye
French Polish w/ Blonde or Platinum Shellac
Yes sir, I will.
I'll post my results/comments. Again, thank you very much!
I started messing around with the FS. I think the first batch may be a bit too strong, I'll wait for comments.
Treated are is on the right.
Link to the file was too large to embed here.....so please follow...this link http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/...673D183952.jpg
Dave, i only see on pic and that is most definitely Maple Burl, not a spec of birdseye anywhere ok?
As to the color, it looks fine to me, in fact it may take a minute amount more FS, i can't see any grey past the natural grey in a few portions. When you get it where you want it, just add the dye right to it and then you can apply both in one session ok? Just make sure it looks right to your liking before applying to the project itself - samples/samples/samples always!!
Seeing all monitors show color differently for the largest part, i will also say, if it looks greyer than what i see, then keep it as is and put a few coats of finish on it so we can see exactly how the end product will. So far your doing fine by what i can see ok?
Yes, they are samples of burl. My statement of BE Maple was that the picture I had in the first post was "said" to be BE. But I didnt think that it was. I do have samples of BE maple as well and they look completely different. First of all think you for the advice so far, I am very excited about getting back down there and messing around with the FS and Dye. I have 3 types of dye; blue, red, and yellow. should I start with equal parts of each to try and get an amber color? and then make modifications as needed. I am also going to try and use a bit stronger mix of FS, just a little and see how it comes out. Thanks Chemmy.
I started mixing up some dyes tonight, I started with a solution that was a little too dark, but made my way toward what i am looking for with the 3rd mix. Attached are some photos of the three dye samples and a test piece of burl that I put sample 3 . Also, sorry about the links and not the pics, everytime I try to post an image (by URL) it says it is too large.
Sample 1
http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/...6953B5B8E5.jpg
Sample 2
http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/...69561B07C6.jpg
Sample 3
http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/...6950C9FB60.jpg
Burl with Sample 3 - It's not what I am looking for but it's a start
http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/...694BEDE14F.jpg
Dave for amber, your looking to use mostly yellow with just a very small amount of red which when added will give you a yellow to the red side, think yellow orange,---- Blue, being the darkening agent of the three should also be added at minimum - Get the yellow orange cast first, then add a tiny amount of blue ok? This will help cut down on the number of trials needed.
You may also find that you need no blue at all to darken, if so, then by all means leave the blue out or use just an infinitesimal amount.
I started fresh with the dyes, taking out a lot of the blue.
Sample 4: 2 pts Yellow, 1 pt Red, and 1/8th pts Blue.
Im getting closer, but not there yet....
http://www.avsforum.com/content/type...00/height/1000
Sample 5: 3 pts Yellow, 1 pt Red - Twice the Distilled Water
This one I really like...
http://www.avsforum.com/content/type...00/height/1000
http://www.avsforum.com/content/type...00/height/1000
http://www.avsforum.com/content/type...00/height/1000
I do have the ratio of FS down, and I am done tinkering with that part.
This next sample is with 100% Tung Oil, another one that I really like
http://www.avsforum.com/content/type...00/height/1000
http://www.avsforum.com/content/type...00/height/1000
http://www.avsforum.com/content/type...00/height/1000
And now a few pics with a scrap piece of Walnut
http://www.avsforum.com/content/type...00/height/1000
http://www.avsforum.com/content/type...00/height/1000
http://www.avsforum.com/content/type...00/height/1000
Chemmy-
Really would like to hear what you think about the samples above. Thanks.
Testing will continue...
Dave, I like them all, lol, but i would not consider the redder ones an amber color. When working with varying woods, and especially the natural reddish burl you have, you must take it's natural color into consideration, in other words, eliminate all of the red dye and just use the yellow to orange it out and an infinitesimally small amount of blue ok?It's already way to red for an amber appearance ok?The yellow and blue will create a yellowish green which will kill the red look. My favorite is the much more lighter amber sample, but that's just my personal preference, you sure don't have to go by my likes or dislikes, it's always what you find most appealing.
Another way to match it up is to do what is known as "layering" where you apply the dyes separately, the yellow first then a very diluted red and then a very diluted blue.Keep in mind to really dilute the red and blue though since they are the most brilliant and most saturated of the three and can quickly overtake the yellow and make it way to orange-red or way to green. it's always a balancing act, but after you have played with them on a few projects i think you will find yourself matching colors pretty easy and quickly as you go along, the trouble only start when you are trying to match someone Else's existing color, then...... no more "easy" times lol.
So again my favorites in order would be:
1) http://www.avsforum.com/content/type...00/height/1000
2) http://www.avsforum.com/content/type...00/height/1000
3) Well... here I'm confused, tell me - is that the color you worked up for the walnut plank? And is this just a sample or part of what you intend for the project itself? I'm personally not fond of purplish/red looking walnut, but to each his own.
One last favor, please advise the people here what your final mix on the FS turned out to be for this project ok? Thanks
Thanks Chemmy
The walnut will not be touched by any of the dyes i am currently trying out, this is solely for the Burl. The Burl will be the inset of the Wainscoting panels which are Walnut. I have been finishing the Walnut with 100% Tung Oil, and I llike the color it's turning into. If you have any suggestions on that as well I would be all ears, as you have been right at every turns so far..lol.
Which brings me to a possible dilemma. These samples of Burl that I have could be completely different from when i actually purchase the burl for the project. I will buy them in much larger sheets and I am afraid that they may be a much lighter color than the reddish samples I have, if this is the case it seems that I may have to modify my dye and/or FS. Is this correct?
Also, what do you think of Curly Maple, in the sample above, one of those sheets has the curl grain in it, I really like that. What are your thoughts?
It's funny, but of all the samples above, it was the one that I applied BLO to that turned real read, i guess it took the natural color of the burl and enhanced it.
I ended up with an FS mix of: 1 teaspoon of FS - 32 ounces of Distilled Water
Hey Dave, First things first, Yes, you will have to change the dye portion of the formula once you have secured the exact wood for the project, this was just to get you started and somewhat familiar with the chemicals and dyes. That said, make sure to either buy a little extra for more sample making/proving or if there will be cut-offs - left overs you can use them instead ok?As to the walnut, you can also make up a yellow orange dye [minuscule amount of red to the yellow and this will bring it into a more amber look also ok? No need for FS on the plain cut walnut!!
1) http://www.avsforum.com/content/type...00/height/1000
This is close to an amber look not quite yellow/orange enough but in the ball park, this with a little tweaking and tung over it should give you a real nice final appearance on the BE or burl you may choose. And, about choice i personally would choose the burl and get it as red free as possible like the attached sample here. You don't need to be fighting a natural red in coming up with an amber color ok? Burl is so much more lively than BE and will help show off itself much better. Hopefully you can hand pick the veneer like i use to, and this will cut out any unwanted affects that will change your final color once you have it. PS: you never know what the real wood color is until you wet it down, don't ever buy veneer until you see it wet, normally they will allow you to wet a section with alcohol to get a good view of it's real color once some type of coating or oil etc., is applied ok?
Again some more insight on the matching of amber's. first find an amber coating that you like and put some on a piece of glass and let dry, then try to match that color as CAP ok? That's always the best starting point for me. The amber of shellac/poly/BLO/tung/ nitro-lacquer/varnishes all have there own amber cast and will give varying results, so keep that in mind also, just pick one you feel looks best ok? Oh, and yes i like the so called curly parts of the burl, if you can find consecutive sheets, enough for the job, i would personally go that route, the burl areas are nice but the combination of both is even better :) I'm also very pleased with the dark and light contrast over-all, it gives alot of depth and character that it would not have as much on it's own, even though it would still look good. The more you can bring that out without turning the wood grey, the better ok? A little grey is ok since the dyes will overcome a bit of grey, but don't go so grey that when the dyes added it still looks or has a grey cast to it. It's a matter of finessing the color. :)
Thanks again for the FS formula info, i'm sure others will appreciate that.
When I tweak a little to the sample you approved above how many coats of tung oil would you recommend. Also, I have 100% Tung, Walnut, and BLO. Would you go with the Tung over the other two. What I have done before is apply the Tung Oil and then hit it with 0000 steel wool, wipe down, and do another coat - then repeat. Is this right?
Just real quick, I am taking your lead on this, because you have a ton of experience and you have been spot on throughout my whole project. And most importantly, I really love the look of what i have done so far. I think you have a really good idea of what I am trying to achieve.
I have some BT & C Blonde shellac mixed and ready to go for the french polish. Should I hold off on this. The samples of veneer I am using are not glued down, so doing anything other than brushing is difficult because it starts to curl. The next set of samples that I ordered I will glue to MDF first so I can get a better test.
I am not able to hand pick my veneer as I have to order it online. There is nothing around here I can go through. However I can see a detailed picture of the sheet before i buy. But thats about the best that I can get.
Dave, I don't recommend any oils for use under shellac, though if and when i want a stand-alone oil finish for something, i use tung, there is no need to do so if applying a shellac over it. Keep in mind that every substance you use that has any color to it and color that will change over time to whatever degree, will affect what you or others will or may achieve and desire in the beginning ok? That said, If you choose to apply the tung, then thin it down 1 part tung to 9 parts turpentine or at least mineral spirits. This will allow the oil/wood/surface to give some visual enhancement of the figured wood, through or by refraction, but it's really not necessary on a surface that's been treated with FS and dye to begin with. As to application of the thinned or diluted oil, just brush it on or out for several minutes keeping it wet and then remove the excess. Since your not using it to build with, one coat is sufficient.
As to BT [button?] or C[C?] blond, for practicing and getting the polishing technique down, that's ok, but you will want to use platinum/platina for the actual job, here again to keep away from adding anymore color to what the dye/chemical treatment and sparse oil has given you. Even this will add a little color, but it is the least amount possible, that can be had, with refined shellac. On the other hand if your really looking to darken or amber out the color even more than what the FS/dye/oil will give, by all means use whatever color shellac you want. All I'm giving are guidelines, nothing is set in stone :)
On the veneer situation, i find almost all veneer suppliers willing to send you a pic or two of what you want to buy, wet down with alcohol, so that you have a real good idea of what it will look like with clear finish on it. Call your supplier and request such and see what there reply is ok?
You also have me wondering what glue you plan on laying up this veneer with? and also how large of areas of burl or BE are you talking - a square foot per panel, more? Again, are you planning on using book matched and consecutive sheets of veneer, or just a random what ever you like per piece application? Importantly to is whether you have ever laid up burl woods or not and if you have a calibrated pin less moisture meter and veneer relaxer to treat and cull the veneers with and proper paper to dry it out till it reaches the EMC it was when purchased. Going ahead with things like contact cement are not a long term answer to what your hoping to achieve.
Other concerns to look at - maintenance, cleaning, renewal, repair, fading, etc. you must know or learn all of this and more, if your to keep the initial end product in pristine condition ok?
I will respond to the above in the AM. For now take a look at this, Im getting very close I think.
Step 1: Applied the FS to get the depth
Step 2: Dye - 2 pts. Yellow, 1/8 pts. Red
http://www.avsforum.com/content/type...00/height/1000
http://www.avsforum.com/content/type...00/height/1000
Step 3: Dye - 1.5 pts Red, 1/8 pt Yellow, 1/32 Blue
http://www.avsforum.com/content/type...00/height/1000
http://www.avsforum.com/content/type...00/height/1000
http://www.avsforum.com/content/type...00/height/1000
A little bit more tweaking and I'll have it I hope.