U.S. to collect 25% tariffs on Chinese woodworking equipment starting July 6

If anyone is interested these are the relevant HTSUS sections

8465.92.00 Planing, milling or molding (by cutting) machines for working wood, cork, bone, hard rubber, hard plastics or similar hard materials
8465.93.00 Grinding, sanding or polishing machines for working wood, cork, bone, hard rubber, hard plastics or similar hard materials
8465.94.00 Bending or assembling machines for working wood, cork, bone hard rubber, hard plastics or similar hard materials
8465.99.02 Machine tools for working wood, cork, bone, hard rubber, hard plastics and similar hard materials, nesoi

Seems to cover just about everything.

I look forward to some interesting discussions at IWF in August.


edit: BTW nesoi means not elsewhere specified or included and is added to make 8465.99.02 a catch all

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Originally Posted by Van Huskey

If anyone is interested these are the relevant HTSUS sections
8465.99.02 Machine tools for working wood, cork, bone, hard rubber, hard plastics and similar[/COLOR]hard materials, nesoi

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This is the killer. Unless one can get an exemption or resorts to the use of false declarations, there is no escape from the tariff.

Taiwanese manufacturers are laughing to the bank.

Simon

Chinese machines going up isn't really that big of a deal. It's an infrequent expense, and still doesn't come close to pricing them out of their market.

Given the choice, I'd rather pay $2500 more on a $10,000 tool than the $35 more on a sheet of plywood I'm paying

I would expect someone from Grizzly to weigh in on this but, pending an authoritative comment, my guess is that this will have very little effect because Grizzly gets much of its better stuff from Taiwan, not China. Taiwan may now do in reality what Tom Clancy had them doing in fiction: putting "We're the good guys" labels on things to make sure American importers and consumers are clear on the distinction.

Rudy, Grizzly weighed in here: https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread....es-going-up-25

I live in a place that saw nearly 100% of manufacturing dry up and die because of cheap imports from countries that levy gigantic protective tariffs against the items produced here... And as a result - our families have to settle for low paying service sector jobs.... That has driven many working class families into poverty because the door is simply shut on them..

I don't much like the idea of my prices going up - I do like the prospect that more jobs will be available for myself, my relatives, and hopefully for my kids. So I say - let's try it out and see how it goes.

Reckless, poorly-thought-out initiatives like this contrived trade war are how strong economies of influential Nations become also-rans. Once the other Nations of the World realize they can carry on business among themselves very well, without the bothersome dominion of the US, they will do just fine. It's been heading this way for awhile now, anyway. This will just accelerate it.

The clash between the world's largest and second largest economies will happen sooner or later. If this isn't the one, come or near China 2035, a goal China has established to surpass the America, the clash will be a reality. America has the military power, but the monetary and soft powers are receding, more so with the soft power as she leaves the climate pact, human rights council and the G7 (in spirit).

No one has the crystal ball, but conflicts are unavoidable as one tries to maintain its world's leader position while another seeks to displace and replace it. 2035 may be a bit too optimistic, but 2050 could be a possible milestone for China to work on.

Simon

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Originally Posted by rudy de haas

I would expect someone from Grizzly to weigh in on this but, pending an authoritative comment, my guess is that this will have very little effect because Grizzly gets much of its better stuff from Taiwan, not China. Taiwan may now do in reality what Tom Clancy had them doing in fiction: putting "We're the good guys" labels on things to make sure American importers and consumers are clear on the distinction.

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Taiwan is mainly supplied by China, and all countries involved. Up up up goes the consumer price. There is no hiding from industrial industry!

I’ll give you an example. I make something that is made in Canada. To ship to the US and it is 90% aluminum, I got to declare that. 30% of what I shipped is made in China, I got to declare that. All new production orientation values I got to declare to the US. Boooo to that. This pretty much takes any consumer grade machine and gives it tarrifs. 99% of what I build custom made machines, tooling and education people entering the industry. I try to keep a constant rapport with students, faculty and businesses to achieve the best results possible. The new up incoming students, I am severely struggling with! They want to be on their iPhones… there are new social thing is gone rampid!

Internet drop shippers just ding the customer! It’s a pretty easy motto thrown off on government tariffs.

Boo who... order for me today, I don’t care. I make or don’t make,... just like anybody else.

To me, we, the consumers are the biggest part of this. It's not the cheap import that puts a Canadian or US manufacturer out of business. It's us, the consumers, buying the cheap imports that puts the Canadian or US business out of business. Every time a new Walmart opens here, there are news stories about how the wicked Walmart will kill the local Ma and Pa store. They would not die if I and other buyers didn't shop at Walmart. But, on opening day, we are lined up like sheep outside the door to buy cheap Chinese tee shirts. Then, we go home and wonder why Ma and Pa clothing store has closed.

In woodworking terms, if we all bought Oneway or General or Robust or whatever made in Canada or US, General would still be making machines in Canada. Instead, we choose to buy imports from China, then blame China for General going out of business. I'm not saying that I am any different from anyone else. I have so much money to spend and I want the best bang for my buck. But, I need to realize that I'm part of the problem.

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Originally Posted by Grant Wilkinson

To me, we, the consumers are the biggest part of this. It's not the cheap import that puts a Canadian or US manufacturer out of business. It's us, the consumers, buying the cheap imports that puts the Canadian or US business out of business. Every time a new Walmart opens here, there are news stories about how the wicked Walmart will kill the local Ma and Pa store. They would not die if I and other buyers didn't shop at Walmart. But, on opening day, we are lined up like sheep outside the door to buy cheap Chinese tee shirts. Then, we go home and wonder why Ma and Pa clothing store has closed.

In woodworking terms, if we all bought Oneway or General or Robust or whatever made in Canada or US, General would still be making machines in Canada. Instead, we choose to buy imports from China, then blame China for General going out of business. I'm not saying that I am any different from anyone else. I have so much money to spend and I want the best bang for my buck. But, I need to realize that I'm part of the problem.

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Not just us consumers but both us and the merchants who in the name of growth and profits move their production overseas.

We just learned that Harley Davidson. is not raising its prices but is shifting some of its production out of US to avoid the EU tariff.

Simon

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Originally Posted by Grant Wilkinson

To me, we, the consumers are the biggest part of this. It's not the cheap import that puts a Canadian or US manufacturer out of business. It's us, the consumers, buying the cheap imports that puts the Canadian or US business out of business. Every time a new Walmart opens here, there are news stories about how the wicked Walmart will kill the local Ma and Pa store. They would not die if I and other buyers didn't shop at Walmart. But, on opening day, we are lined up like sheep outside the door to buy cheap Chinese tee shirts. Then, we go home and wonder why Ma and Pa clothing store has closed.

In woodworking terms, if we all bought Oneway or General or Robust or whatever made in Canada or US, General would still be making machines in Canada. Instead, we choose to buy imports from China, then blame China for General going out of business. I'm not saying that I am any different from anyone else. I have so much money to spend and I want the best bang for my buck. But, I need to realize that I'm part of the problem.

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It goes beyond this....

What has happened is that the US (and many other nations as well) has used trade policy to "Grease the Wheels" of their diplomatic efforts on other fronts.... A bit of Quid pro quo.... It was a knob they could turn - so they did.....

This effort to "Grease the Diplomatic Wheels" by opening the doors to foreign trade does no good if your consumers at home will not BUY said foreign products because they prefer the home made ones instead or because your domestic product is less expensive.....

For example - notice that you cannot buy a Crescent brand USA made adjustable wrench or Stanley USA made chisel for ANY price... It's not that the Import stuff is a competing "down market" line... It's that the "Up market" lines are completely gone.... This is intentional... Remove the choice so you cannot even buy domestic for ANY price.

During the Gulf War.... We made large trade concessions to gain airspace and land bases... To cement those trade concessions - our government enlisted Large Multi-National retailers such as K-Mart, JCPenny, Sears, and Walmart to ensure those foreign made goods made it to stores here for sale..... They literally forced US manufacturers to foreign source a large % of the goods sold thru the retailer or no sales through these large retail giants... It didn't matter that the respective US product was higher quality and lower priced - which it was.... That was the deal PERIOD!!!!

And foreign sourcing this stuff was a ROYAL PITA!!!!! Most of those places were not set up to meet US quality, packaging, or shipping demands... Our boys spent countless hours and millions of dollars sorting out their production, processes, and quality to be able to sell here... Very expensive.... And at the end of it - the "Thanks" they got was getting back-doored by the very same large retailers and foreign "partners" they had worked so hard to sort out.... And then - cut off from this revenue stream to pay off their "Investment" they died....

It really was very nasty - and we did it to ourselves...

But I suppose that we see how it all has worked out for these large Retail Giants.... Lets be honest - why would I want to pay top dollar for cheap import junk at Sears when I can pay very little for the same cheap import junk at WalMart... On that list of retailers... There is only 1 that is not currently on the ropes for these decisions.... Nobody will pay JCPenny or Sears prices for Walmart quality goods... We will pay up market prices for up market quality made in the US and Europe - but we won't pay these high prices for cheap imports... And so guess what - I am not crying for them.....

Simon,

Isn't it 2025?

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Originally Posted by Rich Enders

Simon,

Isn't it 2025?

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2025 is the Made in 2025 strategic plan; 2035 to surpass America https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/...nalCode=rgaf20 ; and 2050 the global leader https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-party-opening

Their plans may not work out of course, but they have the ambitions. Often, their plans are also for domestic consumption purposes, and it is very hard for outsiders and the so-called experts whom have been proven wrong many times to really assess their chances of success. But their day will come, and that is not something the world can really change. They are investing in good wills (soft power) with a lot of nations outside America, and overtime, they will reach the goal of being recognized as the leader in many areas such as climate control. They are buying time as they have been over the past 30 years. Time is really on their side.

Simon

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Originally Posted by ken seale

So where is all this tariff money going?

The consumers will be paying for it and the government will be collecting it. Sounds like a new tax to me.

Is this how the powers to be plan to pay for the tax decrease the wealthy just got? :eek:

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Whether we look at it as a new tax, an old tax, or as a necessary cost to try to bring the trade imbalance down, the money goes to Treasury. Same for other governments which are in trade wars with America. Someone has got to pay the bill, and consumers round the world are stuck here. The tariffs on the woodworking machines and tools will reduce some sales, but excite those who are sourcing from EU, Taiwan and Mexico, as well as the second-hand market.

Simon