Just lamenting on staining pine

I took on a hall table project for a good friend. Making it out of old T&G knotty pine from his cabin. I did some samples in natural finishes and honestly, given where it is going, it needs to be darker. Sealing it first with Seal Coat, then playing with gel stains. It still sure ain’t perfect. Staining pine is a pain. Leaving a bit more gel stain on the surface is helping, but does dull the grain some.

As you all know, once that stain goes down, you’re committed...good or awful. The wood I was given isn’t consistent, and I’m a bit worried the samples won’t be the same as the real thing. I have no more wood to redo, if things go south.

Only thing to do is show him the samples, state all the risks and hope like heck he decides to go natural.

I just hate to have something I made in someone’s house that looks like crap.

I think I need counseling!

Just my take . . . Doing a project without adequate material is disconcerting right off. Many of the cabins around here with T&G knotty pine walls have that warm yellow/orange color that appears to be age under whatever varnish was handy. Sand down some of your test boards, run a thin sealer coat (I cut Seal Coat 1:1 and then cut the result 1:1 for my sealer) followed shortly by a coat of Zinsser Amber or Orange. The cut of the colored shellac is up to your method. If I am prefinishing and can have the material horizinotal I use full strength. If I am doing an assembled piece I thin the shellac and just use more coats. For stronger color use the colored shellac thinned as a sealer and as the main colorant. Being a table I would do the top, at least, in a resilient top coat in addition to the rest of the finishing protocol.

I use dye rather than the typical stains available in the home centers, especially on woods like pine. I happen to use water soluble dye (TransTint), seal it with wax-free shellac and then topcoat. I don't get the "muddiness", although it looks like you-know-what prior to the sealing.

This pine floor was actually colored that way...

Attachment 437734

Dyes are the way to go. But they aren't the perfect solution either if you are applying it by hand. Excess dye will soak into the thirsty areas more and result in blotching just like using stain. The solution is to spray the dye, or a toner. Spraying either puts a constant amount on every square inch, so there is no blotching because there is no excess.

With pine I would first consider whatever flavor dye you like in Sealcoat and spray that on. Two or three light coats is better than one heavy one. Then topcoat with your choice of finish. If you want to adjust the color and/or add depth to the finish, then apply a gel stain or glaze over the toner once it's thoroughly dry. Wipe it off until you get the look you want, then spray another coat of Sealcoat over that once it's dry, then your topcoats.

John

Thanks gents. I don’t have spray equipment, so it’s all being done by hand. I’ve got a few more sample boards which were well sealed with Seal Coat and lightly wiped with gel stain. I’ll put a top coat on them tomorrow and see what I have.

Glenn, must be the same cabin folks, because yes, they were a lovely orangish color. I could actually get close to it with amber shellac, but that’s not the color we’re going for. He’s looking for a warm brown caramel cherry sort of color (huh?)!

Anyway, the GF Brown Mahogany gel stain is getting me to something like that 😀

Phil, I did hand apply that floor and that next room through the visible door is about to get the same treatment once the new floor is down. It wasn't fun being on my knees but keeping a wet edge as I move through the room worked out fine with the water soluble dye.

Thanks Jim. The floor looks great. Just out of curiosity, what color did you use for the floor? I still have a few cutoffs for sample boards and need to make a run to Woodcraft this week. I’m assuming you used water with the trans tint, and then needed a light sanding?

There's no specific color, Phil. I mixed up some dye variations and used samples to come up with what looked right to me to simulate the "pumpkin pine" look of the antique floor. (which still is in place upstairs in that part of the building) I do use water to dissolve the dye but alcohol can also be used. With alcohol, it flashes off very quickly so I prefer to spray it when that's the choice. Once the dye dried, the whiskers were removed with some quick swipes of 320 and then the wax free shellac sealed the surface before two coats of waterborne floor oriented polyurethane went on with a pad.

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Originally Posted by Phil Mueller

Thanks gents. I don’t have spray equipment, so it’s all being done by hand. I’ve got a few more sample boards which were well sealed with Seal Coat and lightly wiped with gel stain. I’ll put a top coat on them tomorrow and see what I have.

Glenn, must be the same cabin folks, because yes, they were a lovely orangish color. I could actually get close to it with amber shellac, but that’s not the color we’re going for. He’s looking for a warm brown caramel cherry sort of color (huh?)!

Anyway, the GF Brown Mahogany gel stain is getting me to something like that 

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I've done smaller dye jobs by hand applying with a staining sponge. The fabric covered sponges. The HF ones are fine, but all of them need a quick wipe down to remove the loose fibers. As per advice from here, soaked it in water first (waterborne dyes) just like one would first fill a paint brush with the appropriate solvent to help with its flow-out.

And you can slow down the absorption a little bit by spritzing distilled water onto the surfaces to be dyed BEFORE starting. Get them damp but not soaking. Yes, it may cause some issues with grain raising, even on stuff that's already been wetted and scuffed.

Then saturate the sponge, saturate the piece (did all the dying prior to final assembly since it doesn't particularly interfere with glue) and wipe back. Plenty of gloves, drop-cloths and rags at the bench!

Really helped minimize the blotching in cherry. Had a few small tambor tables made up using left overs from other work. Mis-matched and plenty of sap wood so dying was the way to even things out. Worked just fine in the end.

Thanks Again, Jim. I actually look forward to working through using a dye.

Thanks Rob. Appreciate the input!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Phil Mueller

Thanks Again, Jim. I actually look forward to working through using a dye.

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Yes, it's an interesting thing. Just keep in mind it's going to look like caa-caa until you start the clears including the shellac. The color pops and the mud disappears with the first coat of the clear.