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I have been thinking about buying one of these machines for a long time. I currently own a shaper 3h.p. with a power feed. Should I just buy a 3'' high corrugated head and profile knives as I need them for my shaper or does the williams and hussey offer way more possibilities ? I am in business ,carpenter with a well stocked small cabinet shop,moving in the direction of working far more in my shop. Any advice from others who have been in this situation is welcome,thanks Mike.
the piece lies on its back which is better. it has a power feed with rubber rollers likely at least my modified woodmaster thing does. The woodmaster has a gear drive feed so you dial in what you want which is better adjustment than a feeder where you have limited choices. 3 Hp shaper can be low on HP for some stuff. I changed out the shaft and got a corrugated head made so same knives work on both the moulder and shaper, I wouldnt want to subscribe to someones non standard knife system and dont know what they use. Old guy laughed at my machine, shop he was in ran 12 stickers daily. He went quiet when he saw the results. I wont be fast like a big machine but they give good results, speaking of what I use those ones will be similar. Stuff I make is cleaner than most moulding shops, im not in a race.
A three hp shaper isn't nearly stout enough for a 3" corrugated head and the set ups are time consuming for moldings. Using a feeder will still not leave as good a finish as laying the stock on its back to profile. The W and H or Woodmaster are better choices. I have a woodmaster with a full head to accept corrugated knives but the W and H with variable speed would probably be my choice now. I make my own moldings but it is time consuming and no way to make money except for short custom runs. Hard to compete with a large molding machine that does it all in one pass. Sizing the stock is a couple of steps, then the back cut, and then the profile. Dave
I wouldn't be able to offer any advice on which approach is better/more appropriate for your needs, but if you do go the W&H route you might be aware that Shopfox makes a clone (W1812) that is significantly cheaper. It is also made in Taiwan so will not be affected by the upcoming tariffs.
My cabinetmaker neighbor across the street has a W&H Molder and it's a great tool for what it's designed to do. It's more specialized than a shaper. Yes, you can run molding very nicely on a shaper, but if it's going to be something you do frequently or if you want to do things "on the curve", a tool like the W&H Molder is the bee's knees for the job.
Id prefer a Micron over either of them but cost goes up a fair bit. Dave right or wrong I usually run one pass at a low speed and never had an issue, Mostly poplar or soft maple but then it would depends on the width and profile. Ive run birdseye crown one pass as well and it came out clean. I doubled up on the bearings on it but it still heats up too much so I dont do long runs, more for custom work and its advantages over the shaper. It came with 5 HP plus the seperate gear motor speed adjustable from almost not moving to whatever ill have to look into that.
Warren, I usually run one pass too with two knives. I've never liked a second pass on either a shaper or molder. Hickory maxes out the Woodmaster so it needs a second depending on the width of the molding. I don't run Poplar as I don't like soft moldings. I don't like the separate heads attached to a spindle system but my WM has a planing head machined for gibs and 60 corrugated cutters so there is some mass spinning. A benefit of the wider machine is you can set the back cutters on one end and the profile on the other so you don't need to change cutters for front and back. Dave
I am not an expert or a pro. I am making crown moulding for our house. I was making it on the shaper(with feeder) until I found a Jet JPM-13 planer/moulder on CL that was in bad shape. I rebuilt it and use it now. I can tell you that the JPM-13 is a lot nicer to use than the shaper. I think the finish is better also even with using 1 knife.
thanks Dave think the head I had made is six inches so likely it can run seven. Poplar Ive used is a hardwood from the tulip family its as hard as soft maple or very close and on antique pieces it will make a nicer look than soft maple depending on finish as some telegraphs back through not as clinical as soft maple. Ive run different hardwoods but not hickory and yeah did a book case in it once and things get more serious with that wood. Two of us carried that in and it was very heavy. Realized I did run the hickory moldings on that machine just cant remember if it was one pass or not
I recently bought a used W&H moulder as a replacement for the Foley Belsaw I sold a couple of years ago. I bought the W&H because setting it up is easy, fast, and foolproof. The finish quality was a huge surprise; far better than what I got off the FB. Knives are reasonably inexpensive, too. Being able to run stock flat is a major advantage to me. I have the elliptical jig, too, but have not yet used it.
John
Everyone should have a moulder (W&H, belsaw or clone of either) and a shaper. Each has their place.
I currently have two W&H machines (because they were really cheap used)
Thanks for all the replies. David thanks for the shaper advice,I had suspected that my machine was light for this type use. My use would be one off custom runs and making new casing and baseboards -trim for my house. So now I will keep looking for a deal on a used one. Thanks for the info and advice,Mike.
The nice thing about the W&H machine is that they are the same as when they first came out so parts are available and the machines can be upgraded to the new standard. When I bought mine in 1991 you could still get the original without power feeds and hand push the wood through although I got mine with the powered rollers. Now you can add the variable speed and the multi-pass rollers to any of the older machines to bring them up to match the new ones. Not many machines do that.
Deals are out there. I picked up both of mine in the last year for under $400 each, one with 35 sets of knives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Kees
I've had a W&H for quite some time now. It's old enough that the casting is painted gray. When I 1st got it, it had the gear feeder on it. I stripped the brass gear twice and decided to get the DC electric feed. Well worth the money. Makes the machine much more versatile. I've done some pretty big moldings. I have a cutter that is just to big for the machine to really handle it. And even at the slowest speed it bogs down. Biggest disadvantage to the machine is the 2HP motor. It's a bit under powered for larger knives. For 4" and under knives it works great. I have a 6" crown and a 6 3/4" baseboard that has a very deep profile. The crown needs two passes and the baseboard still has a hard time with 2 passes.
Another option is the elliptical jig which I have. Expands what you can do with the molder immensely.