type of cut nails to use in workbench build - easily sinkable head?

I'm planning on building an English Nicholson Workbench, following the English Woodworker's plans.

I will be using construction grade Douglas Fir - 2"x10" & 2"x12" - so actual thickness of 1.5" (and probably less after I straighten everything out.)

Plans call for nails & glue. Nails will be used for the top planks as well as the side aprons. So, obviously, these nails will have to be sunk well below the surface so they don't ding a blade iron when the top is being flattened.

The English Woodworker suggests a nail length of 2-2.5x the thickness of the boards, so I guess I'm in the market for 3" (10d) or 3.5" (16d) long nails.

I have been looking at Tremont cut nails. Some of the heads seem to be rather large & decorative and will be hard to sink below the surface (or leave large voids).

Does anyone have any experience and/or recommendations with cut nails that can be countersunk for a workbench or similar type of build?

Thanks!

Modern wood glue is stronger than the wood itself. Have you considered omitting the nails and just using glue and clamps?

Tremont makes a great product, but another choice would be a screw instead of a nail (if you have to use a fastener).

I have used Tremont cut nails. They don't have as much taper as what box stores sell as cut nails these days, but still more than I'd like. I'm fortunate to still have some mostly full 50 pound boxes of various cut nails sold in the 50's and 60's probably, that don't have such a severe taper, but they aren't coated with anything.

If you are nailing one piece of wood crossgrain to what it's being nailed to, one of them will split using modern cut nails, including Tremont, unless the bottom piece is a timber instead of a board.

I only use Tremont when I absolutely want galvanized cut nails, because they're the only ones I know of.

I wouldn't use any kind of metal fastener in a bench top.

There is a technique called blind nailing or invisible nails that may be right for your needs.

Here is an old Fine Woodworking article on the subject > https://www.finehomebuilding.com/198...isible-nailing

For my purposes a regular chisel our gouge was used to lift a section of wood instead of a parting tool. A nail set was used to drive the nail home.

When using cut nails on my projects pilot holes were always drilled to avoid splitting.

Another thing done before driving a cut nails was to put them in a vise and use a cold chisel to raise a few barbs on the edges to give them better holding power.

For your project you may want the Fine Finish Nail > https://tremontnail.com/fine-finish-nail.html

jtk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jim Koepke

There is a technique called blind nailing or invisible nails that may be right for your needs.
jtk

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I really don't feature nails, especially hidden ones, in a benchtop. I would glue up the top and fasten it from below with lags, construction screws or dry dowels allowing for seasonal movement.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kevin Jenness

I really don't feature nails, especially hidden ones, in a benchtop. I would glue up the top and fasten it from below with lags, construction screws or dry dowels allowing for seasonal movement.

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I agree, but the OP brought it up.

For my own bench I do not like the thought of any unnecessary metal fasteners. I've already sacrificed one auger bit to a hidden screw in my factory made bench.

But everyone has a different idea on how to build a bench. At least when one builds their own bench they can make a record of where any metal fasteners may be hiding.

jtk

I think I've seen the video(s) for the bench that the OP is referring to. It uses a plank top, with the 'front' plank (the edge closest to the user) being fastened down with nails and hide glue. The nails to allow some flex with seasonal expansion/contraction, and the glue between the top plank, and the top edge of the apron to keep it from moving at that particular spot and upsetting the reference edge/corner. The other planks (middle and back) of the top are nailed in place, with the nails set heavily below the surface with a punch. It's pretty obvious where the heads are, if you look, but not as glaring as say, counter-bored holes for washer-head screws like I've personally used in the past. The other reason given for the nails is being able to pull the top off after it becomes (eventually) too thin. One could argue - and I'd probably agree - that screws might be easier in that case. I think there was also a certain amount of 'period correctness' going on there - the bench in the video was a gi-normous 12 ft long joiner's bench with a wooden face vise, and pretty much everything was done without power tools (although I'm pretty sure the screw was purchased, for the sake of expediency.

All that said, I'd suggest the OP reach out via email to Richard via email on the site, for ideas on the nails.

I made a showy workbench, buy no way do I want steel in it. Construction grade lumber is going to need dressing a few times to keep it flat as it dries and shrinks. You'll be countersinking them a few times during the lifetime of the bench.

Thanks for all the comments!

Thanks, Monte Milanuk - your comments are right on point!

Yes, I guess at first it seems strange to consider nails in a workbench.

In the videos himself, Richard Maguire (aka the 'English Woodworker') uses some hand wrought nails he found in a barn. Because these old nails are rusted and start splitting on him, halfway through he switches to simple wire nails, adding an extra nail per joint since they have less holding power.

He has a blog entry where he answers some of these questions about a planked top: https://www.theenglishwoodworker.com...-what-how-why/

In this post and from some of the responses to questions from the videos, he states:

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"Nail it down. Straight through the top."

"Reason one – timber movement. Nails will flex and bend allowing the boards to expand and contract in to those gaps we’ve left. Screws are hard and brittle so require elongated holes to achieve the same, but we want our boards fixed down here."

"Reason two – consider your plane irons. Nailing through the top might sound strange, but I’d rather see the enemy and be able to punch it down, than screw from underneath and encounter a stealth demon later on. Remember the top’s quite thin."

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"I’ve got a tremendous love for nails, particularly in this style of construction. Glue and dowels I believe would be a perfectly good alternative though, particularly if you tapered your pegs to give them a bit of a pull down feel so they wedge in a bit."

"The thing about nails that are good in joints like this is essentially you’re adding material and so it expands that joint out a bit."

"There’s a lot more nails to come on the rest of the build but I do believe they also could be replaced with thin pegs – I’ve done this previously on an oak top of this construction."

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So it sounds like he does not like screws for this application because they are brittle and will not allow for wood movement.

I would ask him about cut nails, but he is based in the UK and someone did ask a question about sourcing and which cut nails to buy in the comments section to his videos. He responded by saying he was really unfamiliar with cut nails in the US. So I was really hoping to get someone in the US with personal experience using cut nails on a workbench!

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Lastly, if you are curious, Richard Maguire apparently was in the business of making workbenches prior to these 2016 workbench videos, and gets a favorable review Chris Schwarz: https://blog.lostartpress.com/2013/0...chard-maguire/

Personally I would move forward with the cut nails. Buy the size needed/required from a good source like Treamont. With nice wet construction grade lumber you should have no problem sinking them with minimal split. But before doing this, do a few samples. If the wedging action splits, try wollowing out the entry hole slightly. You will find a sweet spot between nice, un-split parts and fire kindling.

Richard

As it happens, I was watching some content on YT last night where they were using clinched nails, and I saw another possible source:

https://toolsforworkingwood.com/store/dept/CNL

They've got a moderate selection of cut nails of different sizes and styles; hopefully one of them will work for you ��

I'm a little late to the party, but when I built my bench I used concrete nails because I couldn't get regular cut nails. I predrilled and countersunk them, its held up good.
John

Better late than never John, Welcome to the Creek.

Sometimes when folks are looking through posts from a decade are more in the past they forget and post a reply.

Kind of funny when an old inquiry gets a new answer.

jtk