Target EM8000CV Conversion varnish

This week I refinished a neighbor's table I made 5 years ago. The original finish was a simple oil/varnish, but they decided the weathered look wasn't what they wanted.

I sanded some of the scratches, resealed with Waterlox original sealer finish, and then finished with Target EM8000CV (satin) + cross linker. No sanding between the OSF or between the 3 sprayed coats. I really like this product. So far it's been quite durable on my kitchen island I did 6 months ago. What I love most about it is the ease of application. It sprays and levels well. I've applied at 60 degrees, and at 85 degrees. It doesn't smell. It doesn't linger. I sprayed this table inside (venting properly), but it's something I'd NEVER do with a different product.


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THAT....is a totally beautiful table!!! And yea, EM8000cv is a great product. That big "kitchen continent" top I made two years ago for a client out of VG D-Fir is still pretty much "scratchless".

Beautiful table with a beautiful finish, Prashun. Is is black or English walnut? The first photo looks like black walnut; the others more like English walnut.

John

Thanks Guys!. I'm pretty sure it's Black walnut. The first pic was taken at a different time. This table has been sitting in their sunny kitchen for 6 years, so it's lightened a bit. I should have taken some before pix. John, I had you in mind with this post. If you like Clear Poly, I wonder how you'd feel about this. I've found Clear Poly to have a slightly plastic appearance as a thicker film, and it's hard for me to get a level finish that is not either a tiny bit dusty or a tiny bit orange peely. This product seems to be more forgiving in my hands. It also does not scab up on the tip of the gun - even overnight.

I've always found Clear Poly and this to have a slight blue cast at times under raking light; this has less of that.

The other interesting thing is that on both of my projects with this, I've used Waterlox as a seal coat to give a little color. I normally use shellac, but a wipe on coat of waterlox is easier to apply, gives a deeper amber color, and requires no sanding. I do wipe it on then vigorously wipe it all off until the towel does not pick up any brown. 24 hours to dry, and it has accepted the waterbased topcoat just fine.

Thanks Prashun. Well you and Jim and others I can't remember have spoken highly of the EM-8000CV; I'm going to have to try it. My only experience so far with TC's products was not good so I've been hesitant to try them again, but your comparison, Prashun, of how Enduro Clear Poly behaves vs. EM-8000CV is compelling. I've never had any problem getting a super smooth and flat finish with Clear Poly. Don't you use a turbine unit? My friend has a Fuji 3 stage unit and his finishes are never as good as what I get with my conversion gun, including with Clear Poly. Just like you described, he gets gritty or orange peel. I've tried to encourage him to use Extender to eliminate gritty and avoid orange peel, but he's stubborn. ON the other hand, if you can get a flawless finish w/o having to doctor the mix that's all the better.

I've never had issues with the plastic or blue look with Clear Poly. I try not to put on more than 3 coats at about 4 mils wet/coat. When I do that it's just dead clear. If I want warmth I use Sealcoat underneath or a toner of Sealcoat + Transtint or I dye it first.

John

Found this thread while searching on EM8000CV after having a heck of a time with my current project. This has been my desk and table go to finish (with the CL100 crosslinker for post cat) for a few years now and it has always performed beautifully. This giant Claro Walnut slab table is giving me fits! I keep having these very small areas of micro-mud-cracking (not sure what its called) and maybe hard to see in the pictures. First time, I thought, contamination - so I cleaned, sanded smooth, careful not to get back to bare wood, and tried again. Same thing again, same areas. Second time, I thought my abrasives are not stearate-free (I've been using the same Festool abrasives - never had a problem before) - so I cleaned and ever-so carefully-sanded smoothed with known stearate free abrasives. Unfortunately this story keeps going and I am out of ideas. I tried VERY light passes to more-slowly build the finish, and that almost seemed to make it worse. I've tried heavier passes, but never more than 1 mil. I'm waiting for the last attempt (5th) to dry as I type this - its not looking good. Next step, I will be compelled to sand back to bare wood and start over. Maybe use Sealcoat this time instead of the EM1000 sealer. Love to hear your ideas.
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Have you called into Target to discuss? If you've had good results in the past but are having what you describe now, perhaps there is an issue with the container of finish, itself, if you bought it new for this project.

Thanks Jim - I was so hoping you would give me the ah ha moment... Yes, I talked with Jeff Weiss last weekend when this first happened while finishing the underside. We thought then it might have been improperly cleaned Amine blush where I filled voids (at one point, I sanded BEFORE cleaning the cured epoxy, which spreads the amine... duh) and in the end I had to sand back to bare wood and start again. the second time around I skipped the EM1000 because it didn't seem to lay well on that walnut (??) and I eventually got it about 95% right - and since it was the underside, the small areas of micro-cracking would be hidden by the base so I pressed on. For the top, I took extra precautions in my prep. And, by the way, I opened a new 5 gal container for this phase. I'm at my wits end. This is a VERY expensive table and it has to be absolutely right. I'm gonna open a beer, study the issue more, and will restart at bare wood tomorrow. My thought is to seal with sealcoat this time. My gut tells me something is translating through that first layer.

It looks like those areas drank up the finish more than anything. If so, you just need to spray more coats on those areas until the grain is filled, then sand flat and spray your final couple of coats.

1 mil? Do you mean dry? because if you mean wet film thickness that's not anywhere near enough. 3 - 5 mils wet is normal.

If this problem only started with a new can of finish, well, that might be the problem.

John

Update: John, thanks - that was exactly what I did in my final attempt - and it only got worse. It really wasn’t a matter of thirsty wood - it was something with the EM1000 Universal Sealer and that wood. I can’t explain it. But I did confer with Jeff Weiss from Target Coatings and here was the solution: sand back to bare wood (5 1/2 hours of sanding and almost 100 disks later), then thoroughly clean with denatured alcohol and reseal with the finish coat (EM8000CV+CL100, thinned 10%). Worked perfectly. Attachment 461027Attachment 461028Attachment 461029

Thanks very much for the follow-up/resolution, Thomas. Glad you were able to fix it; it sure looks beautiful now.

I don't think I'll be trying TC's Sealer.

John