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I've always wondered which is the correct way to do this? When gluing up a large panel (say a dining room table top or something) is it better to flatten one side and square the lengths to it and then flatten the top all at once after it's glued, or is it better to square and thickness all sides at once and glue up and then flatten? Seems simple, but I'm curious what most people do using hand tools?
IMO, joint the reference faces, then edges. Glue up, then thickness but leave enough to touch up your reference faces.
If you're working exclusively with hand planes, there may be an advantage to doing it one way or another. I use a mix of power and hand tools, but for something wide like a tabletop, the final flattening is going to be with a handplane.
For most glue-ups, I like to get the stock close to size but left slightly thick. I think there are a couple of advantages to this. First, I have a pretty good idea what the final surfaces will look like. No surprise inclusions or damage. Additionally, as I get close to size, the piece gets to release tension and reach equilibrium. I have a chance to deal with these changes and have some idea how it might behave as I bring it to final dimensions. How much I leave it thick depends on the project and how I read the stock. Also, I tend to try to remove equal amount from each side. IMO, this helps maintain the tension balance in the stock.
Then I square the edges and do the glue-up. Lastly, I re-flatten, if necessary, and bring it to the final size.
Other people may do it differently, but this has worked for me.
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Originally Posted by Greg Berlin
In the case of a wider item like a table top, I have worked over a particular board that looked like it was going to need lots of work before I glued up the complete panel (or top) just because it was easier to access the board when it was loose rather than it would be when located in the middle of the panel. Sort of a "pre-thickness plane" pass that did not attempt to get it down to final thickness but intended to reveal any issues that may ne lurking. Especially if it has something like a large knot or wild grain that looks problematic. I always remember the first piece of furniture I built that ended up 5/8" thick rather than the 3/4" + that I envisioned when I designed it. Of course, it is better to eliminate individual boards that look like they have issues before using them in a glue up, but it happens from time to time when trying to stretch the amount of expensive hardwoods on hand. Typical practice, as Brian said, is to do the final thickness and finish planning on the complete panel.
Fair point to get it close, but I would leave a pretty solid margin for adjustment.
IMO & IME, a freshly glued up panel will need some amount of work. What I've been most successful with is making planer width panels and then gluing those up. Yeah, it's cheating but it's what I do. You still have to have a reference face and a reference edge to do the glueup.
I have glued up before flattening faces for thirty years or more. You don't need flat faces to make a joint, just two flat edges. I use winding sticks. There is a saving in time because you only make a flat face surface once, rather than making two flat surfaces before glue up and then having to flatten again after gluing. You also gain a little in thickness because you make the decisions as to where to remove material after viewing the whole landscape of the glued up panel. I think this is the best way, but it does take more skill. The other approach works as well, just not as efficient.
Writing in 1812 Peter Nicholson said "First rough plane the side of the board with the jack plane, or plane the rough off the side of the board next to the joint. Then setting the sides of the board in a vertical position and placing it in the bench screw... I occasionally do some rough face planing before doing the edges as well.
I'm an amateur, (thats why I'm in the Neanderthal thread :cool: ) I've never glued up a panel that didn't need reflattening after glue up. I've only ever made one dining table size top, glued up from just three boards. Two boards could fit through my thicknesser, but the middle one was too wide. I also tend to use lower grade timber that has difficult grain (read cheap $). My approach has been to roughly flatten both faces to get rid of machining marks and get each board to an even thickness, but not necessarily bring them to the same thickness. If it fits over the jointer that's good, if not it's all hand tools. I then select the show face and make it as clean as I can before jointing the edges to be mated, aiming for a just sprung join.
After glue up I flatten the finish face and depending on intended use bring the whole panel down to an even thickness and dimension it as needed. In the case of the dining table top I made, I did not bother to rework the underside as it was to be set in a frame. The underside is not visible and you would have to crawl under the table to see the boards are different thicknesses.
I get the show faces as close as possible before jointing the edges, since I joint the edges of the two boards with the faces together. If the boards were still rough sawn on the face it would make edge jointing this way more difficult.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Mickley
I would do some flattening first to relieve tension in the wood. Less stress in the project is always better.
Sage advice as usual, Warren.
It does make sense that you'd save some time and potentially gain thickness. With machine work, the time savings is probably negligible, but it would make a big difference with hand planes.
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Originally Posted by Warren Mickley
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Originally Posted by Franklin Ferrier
Say what? :eek:
OT, but in IMO it's usually the really experienced guys who finally realize that they don't need all that noise & airborne sawdust to get the job done, and that a small task often takes 1/2 the time with a hand tool, compared to setting everything up on a "big old arn" beast. (With the exception of a bandsaw.)
Concerning this thread, one nice thing about using planes & scrapers is you don't have to worry so much about leveling a glue line.
Size matters. If the final panel is long and wide, the center part is harder to reach and I usually get the boards planed before gluing up. I am not sure about the efficiency factor as I am not a production worker and the second (or final) flattening takes very little extra time if the first round of planing and glue-up is done properly. I like to breakdown a large job into smaller ones.
For smaller panels, I do it either way, depending on my mood, I must say, as sometimes I just prefer to do some glue-up as the day starts or charge into some handplaning before anything else.
The best way for a woodworker is to try the two different approaches and see which one works better.
Simon
The advantage of doing some face planing before glue up is that you can better see how the grain matches.