4 stage or Air Compressor?

I've been "doing well" with a pancake compressor and a HF HVLP gun, but recognizing the limitations as well as the short life of my compressor running 2 hour long spray jobs....(what it takes to spray a few dozen T&G board), I've long been looking at say a Fuji 4 stage. Unfortunately Fuji like everyone else is price gouging the the price of all their sprayers seems to have gone up many times the CPI 9%. There's no way construction and shipping costs have gone up that much. 2 years ago they were affordable but I didn't think I needed one, now I think I need one and holy heck the prices!

At that price point, a 20-30 gallon compressor starts to look attractive and cost far less. And I can run more tools I'd like to run (I do more than just WW in the shop). Like a sandblaster. Or a die grinder.

But I'd hate to get a 30 gallon and a good gun and then still wish I got the Fuji. Anyone do that? Go bigger compressor and still wish you got a 3/4 stage?

FWIW, portability/hose management is not an issue for me.

I'm not sure what type of "20 or 30 gallon" compressor you're considering to run a sand blaster, or die grinder, but I don't know of any. I'd consider bare minimum for that type of work to be a 5hp 2-stage compressor, and even that is limiting.

You don't need portability so that eliminates one reason to buy a turbine unit. But if you just want to plug and play then that's one good reason to buy one. If you don't mind doing just a little bit of work, however, a compressor and conversion gun will give you more versatility plus a compressor for use with other tools, which you mentioned as desirable.

If you are considering a compressor, however, you should think about something much larger than a 30 gal one if you want to use spray guns that can spray heavy bodied materials like pigmented lacquer and paints. The deal with a compressor/conversion gun is that you need a compressor that can output at least as much air at 40 psi as the gun consumes, and preferably more. 4 cfm will let you use a LVLP gun which is pretty useful, and some can even spray heavy bodied products, but the rate they spray at is fairly low. That may still be OK if you generally work on one cabinet or piece of furniture at a time, but not a good choice if you need to finish a whole row of kitchen cabinets.

If you move up to a 60 gal compressor that can output about 10 cfm at 40 psi then you have enough capacity for many HVLP guns and those can spray product faster and also spray a wider fan which allows you to cover more area, faster, and with higher uniformity. If you move up to a two stage 80 gal compressor with around 15 cfm output then Bob's your uncle; you can use about any spray gun made.

If you have desires of using a sandblaster you definitely will need something larger than 30 gals to get anything done.

A disadvantage of turbine units is that they heat the air and that can cause the finish to set before it has a chance to flow out, leaving a gritty feel. There are ways around it, but that is inherently less likely to happen with a conversion gun where the air cools as it leaves the gun. On the flip side, compressors do require occasional maintenance and draining, and you may need an air drier depending upon where you live and what you want to spray.

I chose a 60 gal, 10 cfm compressor and conversion gun set up. I have no special filters/driers and have never had any problems spraying shellac and waterborne products where I live near Niagara Falls, NY, summer or winter. I have never regretted going this direction nor wished I'd bought a turbine, actually, glad I didn't.

John

I sold my top end Apollo turbine rig when Graco came out with a self-contained, portable AAA unit. Soon after they figured out the tips used with their AAA rig could be used in a different kind of regular airless rig, and the FF tips came our for airless, I sold the AAA rig as quickly as I could. I never looked back, and never regretted not having a turbine rig since.

I have a number of different compressors, but when I'm spraying any kind of finish/paint with the compressor rig, the compressor is 10hp 120 gallon tank with a refrigerated dryer. We live on the lee side (predominant wind direction) of a large body of water, so there are days when the air is saturated with water vapor. If you're like me, and buy used equipment, larger compressors are generally cheaper used than smaller new ones. I paid $500 for that oil pressurized 10hp off Craigslist, and $125 for the dryer. Both needed a few parts, but not a lot of money to get going.

The size of the compressor tank is of little importance to the amount of air the pump can move. Generally speaking, the larger the flow, the larger the tank, but I would be looking at a lot more specs than simply tank size.

My opinion is in line with Johns. A decent compressor and a nice quality HPLV/LPLV gun with the 3M PPS system will allow you to spray almost anything and also support the kinds of pneumatic tools that folks typically use in a woodworking shop as well as for many other kinds of tasks. I do also agree with previous comments that sandblasting pushes the limits for the 60 gallon units that typically end up in woodworking shops, but a small parts set up would probably work ok.

I use a 60 gallon 3 hp IR compressor and a gun from Jeff Jewitt with the 3M PPS system these days for most of the finishes I spray. I use my older Wagner HPLV conversion gun "just for Shellac" at this point as it sprays that well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John TenEyck

You don't need portability so that eliminates one reason to buy a turbine unit. But if you just want to plug and play then that's one good reason to buy one. If you don't mind doing just a little bit of work, however, a compressor and conversion gun will give you more versatility plus a compressor for use with other tools, which you mentioned as desirable.

If you are considering a compressor, however, you should think about something much larger than a 30 gal one if you want to use spray guns that can spray heavy bodied materials like pigmented lacquer and paints. The deal with a compressor/conversion gun is that you need a compressor that can output at least as much air at 40 psi as the gun consumes, and preferably more. 4 cfm will let you use a LVLP gun which is pretty useful, and some can even spray heavy bodied products, but the rate they spray at is fairly low. That may still be OK if you generally work on one cabinet or piece of furniture at a time, but not a good choice if you need to finish a whole row of kitchen cabinets.

If you move up to a 60 gal compressor that can output about 10 cfm at 40 psi then you have enough capacity for many HVLP guns and those can spray product faster and also spray a wider fan which allows you to cover more area, faster, and with higher uniformity. If you move up to a two stage 80 gal compressor with around 15 cfm output then Bob's your uncle; you can use about any spray gun made.

If you have desires of using a sandblaster you definitely will need something larger than 30 gals to get anything done.

A disadvantage of turbine units is that they heat the air and that can cause the finish to set before it has a chance to flow out, leaving a gritty feel. There are ways around it, but that is inherently less likely to happen with a conversion gun where the air cools as it leaves the gun. On the flip side, compressors do require occasional maintenance and draining, and you may need an air drier depending upon where you live and what you want to spray.

I chose a 60 gal, 10 cfm compressor and conversion gun set up. I have no special filters/driers and have never had any problems spraying shellac and waterborne products where I live near Niagara Falls, NY, summer or winter. I have never regretted going this direction nor wished I'd bought a turbine, actually, glad I didn't.

John

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Hmm....I should point out that wiring a compressor for 240 would be prohibitively expensive/difficult. Not impossible....all I got now is a 240 for floor tools (one at a time) and one for HVAC, and both are 20 amp. There is zero chance I can upgrade to 30amp, that would require taking drywall down (again), and there is zero chance for adding another 240 circuit, as I'm already maxed out the small sub panel which was already designed/permitted for what's in there now.

But I'm also not finishing 20 cabinets at a time either, nor am I sand blasting an entire Toyota Tacoma frame. Right now I'm looking at 30 gal at Lowes/HD, which seem to be in the 4.5-6.5 CFM 40-90 psi range (example dewalt: 7 CFM at 40 psi and 5.7 CFM at 90 psi)

If you can't support 240v that's required for a typical 60 gallon compressor, one of the 120v 20a 25-30 gallon compressors will work reasonably well...you just have a lot less air reserve and the compressor will run more while spraying. That can create even more moisture, so decent water filtration is even more necessary. Take a look at the IR Garage Mate before you plunk down money on a house brand compressor from the big box store. Pay attention to the components used in the air path.

If the compressor can't keep up with the gun, or the gun you have to use to accommodate the compressor doesn't meet your actual needs, you will wish you had bought the turbine unit.

John

I have one of those 30 gallon compressors from Home Depot. I don't believe it moves as much air as they say it does, and it's VERY LOUD! I bought it because I had thousands of framing nails to shoot in an attic, got tired of waiting for the 1-1/2hp twin tank, and didn't want to bother to move one of the big ones and wire it up for one use. I wish I'd left it sitting where it was. We still had to do a lot of waiting. I've used it for several things since then, but I get aggravated with it every time.

Was building these to fix a severely sagging roof. The big pieces in those trusses are 2x12x16's.